Slitherine

I know the devs worked real hard on heroes, trying to make them different and flavorful. It pains me to say it, but I'm not a fan of the new heroes.

Several of the heroes I have discovered are very situational. It reminds me of my old Dungeons and Dragons days. Among all my other weapons, I have a sword +1 +3 vs Lyncanthropes (or dragons, or whatever). I always, ALWAYS, forgot the +3 when the situation arose.

I find myself constantly fretting over which unit has the + to attack unharmed units, which has the + to attack units at less than 50% strength, which has bonus vs only hard targets?

I guess I just miss the flat + heroes. They were generic, but real easy to remember, because they were never situational.

I for one am a big fan of the new heroes. I've put my 2x attack per turn Hero in a Stuka with another hero that is +5 tank attacks and they can bust up a tank unit in one go. Very handy. My pioneer has a hero that prevents retreats and has another hero that is +5 infantry attack. Guess who decimates city defenders with almost no sweat? I use special camos on these "hero units" so I can recognize them and save their abilities for special circumstances. So yeah, I like this system.

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:42 am I for one am a big fan of the new heroes. I've put my 2x attack per turn Hero in a Stuka with another hero that is +5 tank attacks and they can bust up a tank unit in one go. Very handy. My pioneer has a hero that prevents retreats and has another hero that is +5 infantry attack. Guess who decimates city defenders with almost no sweat? I use special camos on these "hero units" so I can recognize them and save their abilities for special circumstances. So yeah, I like this system.

Unit name customization and unit camo customization are 100% awesome. I absolutely paint up my special units for instant battlefield recognition.
Really makes my army feel like mine and not just a collection of units I'm borrowing.

With those super-heroes, a unit should be able to have only one heroe, because their combo shows even more they are comic and it removes immersion.

ErissN6 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:55 am With those super-heroes, a unit should be able to have only one heroe, because their combo shows even more they are comic and it removes immersion.

Not for me. I'm even more immersed in the game when I can fix up a special OP super unit. You play your way and I'll play mine, fair enough?

I know a lot of thought and care went into heroes. I can understand how someone could customize favorite units.

I just miss plain old + 1 attack guys. Less bookkeeping. a

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:29 am

ErissN6 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:55 am With those super-heroes, a unit should be able to have only one heroe, because their combo shows even more they are comic and it removes immersion.

Not for me. I'm even more immersed in the game when I can fix up a special OP super unit. You play your way and I'll play mine, fair enough?

It's hard for him to play his way when the type of hero he is looking for isn't in the game.

Vaughn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:03 am I know a lot of thought and care went into heroes. I can understand how someone could customize favorite units.

I just miss plain old + 1 attack guys. Less bookkeeping. a

I agree in the sense that the heroes in PC1 just gave you a small edge. It was a good fit for the game. A lot of these new heroes makes the game more cartoony than it needs to be, in my opinion.

MickMannock wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:36 am

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:29 am

ErissN6 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:55 am With those super-heroes, a unit should be able to have only one heroe, because their combo shows even more they are comic and it removes immersion.

Not for me. I'm even more immersed in the game when I can fix up a special OP super unit. You play your way and I'll play mine, fair enough?

It's hard for him to play his way when the type of hero he is looking for isn't in the game.

Vaughn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:03 am I know a lot of thought and care went into heroes. I can understand how someone could customize favorite units.

I just miss plain old + 1 attack guys. Less bookkeeping. a

I agree in the sense that the heroes in PC1 just gave you a small edge. It was a good fit for the game. A lot of these new heroes makes the game more cartoony than it needs to be, in my opinion.

Sounds to me like there are a some who are pretty stuck on aspects of PC1. I played it. I prefer PC2. PC1 is still there for folks who prefer it. Designers can't make everyone happy. Gosh knows I was disappointed with some successor games, for instance XC2/WotC: too much zombie/witch/demon stuff for me. As for these concerns with PC2, maybe some modders will be able to fix things up at some point, who knows how much the game is open to modding?

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:49 am
Sounds to me like there are a some who are pretty stuck on aspects of PC1. I played it. I prefer PC2. PC1 is still there for folks who prefer it. Designers can't make everyone happy. Gosh knows I was disappointed with some successor games, for instance XC2/WotC: too much zombie/witch/demon stuff for me. As for these concerns with PC2, maybe some modders will be able to fix things up at some point, who knows how much the game is open to modding?

True, it's hard to please everyone. But this is the official forum of the game. If one may not voice his/her opinion here, where is one to do so?

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:49 am Sounds to me like there are a some who are pretty stuck on aspects of PC1. I played it. I prefer PC2. PC1 is still there for folks who prefer it. Designers can't make everyone happy. Gosh knows I was disappointed with some successor games, for instance XC2/WotC: too much zombie/witch/demon stuff for me. As for these concerns with PC2, maybe some modders will be able to fix things up at some point, who knows how much the game is open to modding?

Oh man, going a little off topic here, but since you mentioned it...
What do you think of new offshoot xcom they pushing out? $10, a lot of re-used xcom 2 assets, and some very... unusual character designs.

MickMannock wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:58 am

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:49 am
Sounds to me like there are a some who are pretty stuck on aspects of PC1. I played it. I prefer PC2. PC1 is still there for folks who prefer it. Designers can't make everyone happy. Gosh knows I was disappointed with some successor games, for instance XC2/WotC: too much zombie/witch/demon stuff for me. As for these concerns with PC2, maybe some modders will be able to fix things up at some point, who knows how much the game is open to modding?

True, it's hard to please everyone. But this is the official forum of the game. If one may not voice his/her opinion here, where is one to do so?

Far be it from me from deterring anyone from voicing their legitimate opinion. We all have preferences and it is fine to voice them, hopefully constructively. I'm just more of a fan of this version of the game and perhaps not as nuanced about some issues as are other folks. The developers do pay attention to the forums so voicing one's opinions and suggestions is essential if you care about the product and hope to see changes.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:08 am Oh man, going a little off topic here, but since you mentioned it...
What do you think of new offshoot xcom they pushing out? $10, a lot of re-used xcom 2 assets, and some very... unusual character designs.

Ugh, let's not go there. I was finally beginning to accept Firaxis' XCOM aesthetics, and they go and pull this horrible Marvel-inspired alien super hero garbage on me. Long may it rest in pieces.

I don't particularly miss the generic heroes, but I do find the new approach disappointing; being able to customize your core with them is nice, but I don't recall too many players who argued that heroes were too weak in the Grand Campaign -- if anything it was the opposite -- so where they got the idea to dial them up to 11 I don't know. I'm still hoping heroes will be rebalanced, but if not I'll just keep playing w/o them.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:08 am

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:49 am Sounds to me like there are a some who are pretty stuck on aspects of PC1. I played it. I prefer PC2. PC1 is still there for folks who prefer it. Designers can't make everyone happy. Gosh knows I was disappointed with some successor games, for instance XC2/WotC: too much zombie/witch/demon stuff for me. As for these concerns with PC2, maybe some modders will be able to fix things up at some point, who knows how much the game is open to modding?

Oh man, going a little off topic here, but since you mentioned it...
What do you think of new offshoot xcom they pushing out? $10, a lot of re-used xcom 2 assets, and some very... unusual character designs.

I hope I'm not violating forum rules by going O/T but since you asked, I like pure sci-fi and I'm no fan of the vampire/zombie ilk of themes, so XC2/WotC was disappointing. This DLC at $10 seems a good value though and I'll try it out just because I like the gameplay and tactical possibilities. Character issues notwithstanding, there's some interesting thought went into the game. Finally, I'm no fan of the comic book style but at 71 I think I'm allowed my quirks.

To recognize the heroes, the game need more camos like the possibility to add a sign ( a cross/ a star, a stripe/ a colored line etc... ) on each unit .

jeffoot77 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:15 am To recognize the heroes, the game need more camos like the possibility to add a sign ( a cross/ a star, a stripe/ a colored line etc... ) on each unit .

Since you get one hero after every missions, it won't take long until it's a big rainbow colored army running around Europe.

ErissN6 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:55 am With those super-heroes, a unit should be able to have only one heroe, because their combo shows even more they are comic and it removes immersion.

You can always limit yourself to 1 hero per unit.

In fact I'm pretty sure you could mod that in too so you aren't even tempted.

Horseman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:46 amYou can always limit yourself to 1 hero per unit. I'm pretty sure you could mod that.

Maybe, it will then be a "flaw" of the general, giving some point to choose an advantage for not being able to do deaths combos.

Vaughn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:37 am I guess I just miss the flat + heroes. They were generic, but real easy to remember, because they were never situational.

Not a perfect solution, but a lot of what you seem to be looking for is actually in Unit Awards-- you could not use Heroes at all and still get a lot of +1, +2 type effects... Or just use very selective heroes (like Butcher +5).

MickMannock wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:36 am

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:29 am

ErissN6 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:55 am With those super-heroes, a unit should be able to have only one heroe, because their combo shows even more they are comic and it removes immersion.

Not for me. I'm even more immersed in the game when I can fix up a special OP super unit. You play your way and I'll play mine, fair enough?

It's hard for him to play his way when the type of hero he is looking for isn't in the game.

Vaughn wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:03 am I know a lot of thought and care went into heroes. I can understand how someone could customize favorite units.

I just miss plain old + 1 attack guys. Less bookkeeping. a

I agree in the sense that the heroes in PC1 just gave you a small edge. It was a good fit for the game. A lot of these new heroes makes the game more cartoony than it needs to be, in my opinion.

And if it was not cartoony enough, they all miraculously come back when your entire unit gets destroyed! LOL

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:42 am I for one am a big fan of the new heroes. I've put my 2x attack per turn Hero in a Stuka with another hero that is +5 tank attacks and they can bust up a tank unit in one go. Very handy. My pioneer has a hero that prevents retreats and has another hero that is +5 infantry attack. Guess who decimates city defenders with almost no sweat? I use special camos on these "hero units" so I can recognize them and save their abilities for special circumstances. So yeah, I like this system.

Units with heroes have special camo, so we do it the same way. That way its so much easier not to forget about which unit has which hero. The 2x attack hero is better in a tiger with no flee hero, so you can capture two times without the need for encirclement. If you add a 3rd hero, like +5 ag. tanks, well, then capturing of super heavy stuff is easy AND 2 times per round. But on the other hand, a killer stuka sounds nice too. But the downside is bad weather. I want to use this 2 attack per round unit ALWAYS.