Slitherine

I won the campaign - via the "alt history East" path - and when I occupied the last victory hex on the map, I got the victory screen... and then it just faded back to the main menu.

Is it just me or is that a little bit anticlimactic? A little bit of final VO, a debrief, a summary of all the battles I fought in the campaign (total losses, total kills, etc., like Ultimate General Civil War) or exit dialogue would be nice. Hell, just a text scroll would be awesome. I honestly felt a little cheated going through 80 hours of play time for that.

Also - is that only because I won via the "alt history" path? Is the "historical" ending any more exciting?

It's WW2 so I guess they presume you know how it's supposed to end.

I do agree that a little celebration or other kind of a speech from your glorious commander would be a nice touch.

The meta structure of the campaign in general is disappointing to be honest, with no debriefings at all. Winning the campaign and being unceremoniously dumped back to the main menu doesn't help. I'm hoping the devs will at least consider changing this for future campaigns because it gives a much better impression on the whole and adds to the immersion factor -- even if you only use some static backgrounds with text it's much better than nothing and hardly takes a lot of time to make.

The debriefings of old are pretty much missed by none. No one needs to see 'you won' written in three different degrees of positivity at the end of every single scenario. This, plus the requirement to 'lose' scenarios to progress to certain branches also being cut really tore the guts out of the technical need for debriefings.

Now that said I do agree maybe we lost a little too much here. I definitely found myself having to load information I normally put into a debriefing into the follow scenario's briefing, just to explain how you got from the end of point A to the start of point B. This is felt most in the historical branches of the late war. And we lost a nice place to load up the game with historical context and notes, as you guys clearly remember from the Grand Campaign debriefings.

Hopefully in future, there will be some improvement to this. And perhaps if there's time we can go back and retroactively upgrade the mainline campaign too.
I mean, there were plans to have something, they just couldn't be realized.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:10 am
Now that said I do agree maybe we lost a little too much here. I definitely found myself having to load information I normally put into a debriefing into the follow scenario's briefing, just to explain how you got from the end of point A to the start of point B. This is felt most in the historical branches of the late war. And we lost a nice place to load up the game with historical context and notes, as you guys clearly remember from the Grand Campaign debriefings.

I actually do miss the debriefings for the very reason you mention here. Sure, there were some that I read more than once, but I still enjoyed them. Though I'm a player that wants both historical accuracy and context when I play a game like this, so I might be an outlier compared to the average player.

At the end of a campaign, there should be a "score" with a rank /star/medal on your profile . And a short summary of all campaigns already done ( for the moment there is only one german campaign)

At least, there should be some message like : " you have unlocked a new prototype unit " or " you have unlocked a new commander trait"

That's a strawman argument, though. There's a middleway between "Gratz! You won!" and nothing. It can be particularly jarring in North Africa, where you fight a series of battles that practically take place in the same location, and while WW2 buffs would know why some players are going to wonder why they keep fighting the same battle over and over (didn't I just see Gazala?).

Kerensky wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:10 am Now that said I do agree maybe we lost a little too much here. I definitely found myself having to load information I normally put into a debriefing into the follow scenario's briefing, just to explain how you got from the end of point A to the start of point B. This is felt most in the historical branches of the late war. And we lost a nice place to load up the game with historical context and notes, as you guys clearly remember from the Grand Campaign debriefings.

Hopefully in future, there will be some improvement to this. And perhaps if there's time we can go back and retroactively upgrade the mainline campaign too.
I mean, there were plans to have something, they just couldn't be realized.

This would be very much appreciated. <3

I agree you don't need a full-blown debriefing system, but having the machinery for an inter-battle cutscene (even an in-game cutscene of scripted AI battles with VO) would be awesome. Something like seeing the Russian tanks pushing your forces back in their winter offensive after Moscow, or the massing of a gigantic mass of Soviet armor after Stalingrad.

Or even just (per the title) as an ending cinematic to the campaign would still be awesome. Maybe a parade of your panzers through the streets of Berlin. Maybe you could add one last scenario to the alt-history campaign... Operation Valkyrie? Just thoughts.

But thank you for the response.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:10 am The debriefings of old are pretty much missed by none. No one needs to see 'you won' written in three different degrees of positivity at the end of every single scenario. This, plus the requirement to 'lose' scenarios to progress to certain branches also being cut really tore the guts out of the technical need for debriefings.

Now that said I do agree maybe we lost a little too much here. I definitely found myself having to load information I normally put into a debriefing into the follow scenario's briefing, just to explain how you got from the end of point A to the start of point B. This is felt most in the historical branches of the late war. And we lost a nice place to load up the game with historical context and notes, as you guys clearly remember from the Grand Campaign debriefings.

Hopefully in future, there will be some improvement to this. And perhaps if there's time we can go back and retroactively upgrade the mainline campaign too.
I mean, there were plans to have something, they just couldn't be realized.

Perhaps I am just getting old then. I do miss the de briefings or at least something like what the other posters mention

Kerensky wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:10 am The debriefings of old are pretty much missed by none. No one needs to see 'you won' written in three different degrees of positivity at the end of every single scenario. This, plus the requirement to 'lose' scenarios to progress to certain branches also being cut really tore the guts out of the technical need for debriefings.

Now that said I do agree maybe we lost a little too much here. I definitely found myself having to load information I normally put into a debriefing into the follow scenario's briefing, just to explain how you got from the end of point A to the start of point B. This is felt most in the historical branches of the late war. And we lost a nice place to load up the game with historical context and notes, as you guys clearly remember from the Grand Campaign debriefings.

Hopefully in future, there will be some improvement to this. And perhaps if there's time we can go back and retroactively upgrade the mainline campaign too.
I mean, there were plans to have something, they just couldn't be realized.

I told you so in the beta

Joking aside. I think it would be grand to have the framework of debriefs in the game.

i really like the game, but I do miss debriefings a bit. The new interaction at the start of a map is a lot more interesting than it was before, well done. Something similar would be nice at least at major junctions of the campaign tree and at the end of a campaign.

The debriefings are greatly missed. Panzer Corps has never been able to hold a candle in the wind to Panzer General 2 briefings!

I agree with everyone here about the debriefings, and definitely there should be something shown after campaign ending.

I would like to see some stats as well: casualties, kills, etc.

Kerensky wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:10 am The debriefings of old are pretty much missed by none. No one needs to see 'you won' written in three different degrees of positivity at the end of every single scenario. This, plus the requirement to 'lose' scenarios to progress to certain branches also being cut really tore the guts out of the technical need for debriefings.

Now that said I do agree maybe we lost a little too much here. I definitely found myself having to load information I normally put into a debriefing into the follow scenario's briefing, just to explain how you got from the end of point A to the start of point B. This is felt most in the historical branches of the late war. And we lost a nice place to load up the game with historical context and notes, as you guys clearly remember from the Grand Campaign debriefings.

Hopefully in future, there will be some improvement to this. And perhaps if there's time we can go back and retroactively upgrade the mainline campaign too.
I mean, there were plans to have something, they just couldn't be realized.

Oh man, I am going to have disagree with you big time here my friend! I LOVED the debriefings. They added so much flavor, even going back to the Panzer General 1 days. Just hearing the general talk about how good I did always gave me so much motivation to play on.
I commented on Steam also that i was very sad that there was no ending to the game. I do hope you guys address this in the near future.

monkspider wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:22 am Oh man, I am going to have disagree with you big time here my friend! I LOVED the debriefings. They added so much flavor, even going back to the Panzer General 1 days. Just hearing the general talk about how good I did always gave me so much motivation to play on.

Did they really though? I kinda agree with what rudankort said in a different thread. We remember them fondly, but we don't really remember what they actually were.
viewtopic.php?f=464&t=98018&start=20#p841653

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgA9EQsH6jU

This briefing is... incredible.

It's one giant block of text.
Also, can you imagine me trying to get 'put to work towards the real objective: the return of Germany to its proper place, the leader of Europe.' passed the editing process? I think I'll give our publisher a stroke! Now granted this was written in a different time(sad to have to say 20 years ago was a vastly different time) but still.

It bothers me more how completely unhistorical this briefing seems to be. Completely glosses over German involvement in the Spanish Civil War, kinda makes it sound like the Germans were just called in to walk into Madrid and done deal.

Sure they have a debriefing, but it's not terribly impressive. That quip about pro-German government in Spain is a straight up exaggeration, that never comes into play in the game.
And other then that, it just says: good job.

I think Panzer Corps 2 did better to have nothing and instead relying on improved briefings to carry the narrative. I also agree Panzer Corps 2 should still strive to do much better yet. I don't want one paragraph that just says 'good job' at the end of every scenario. I want it to maybe be as interesting and advanced as the briefing system.

We'll see, but I think they're listening, because the players voices on this topic are pretty universal. It's not a controversial topic like some other things that's for sure.

I sorta , kinda , am surprised that the original grand campaign is a German campaign.

--- Except I'm not surprised.

Generally , the Germans had the coolest - looking uniforms and gear , plus the most variety .

--- Except we cannot come right out and say that.

The actual Third Reich / Wehrmacht flag is a lot prettier and generally cooler than the vague , generic , totally unhistorical , goofy , non - flag work - around everyone is using.

( No doubt if this game is still relevant a year from now someone will make a mod that uses the actual flag ---- but it won't be available from Steam , or from this site. )

My strong guess is that you have the same basic problem with the role play touches like briefings , debriefings , and a final victory cut scene.

For example , in that final victory cut scene , who is THE most likely , most appropriate , and best , candidate to pat you on the back , and congratulate you ?

..... ummmm , it would be a fellow it is best not to even name here.

Such is the way of things .

Kerensky wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:05 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgA9EQsH6jU

This briefing is... incredible.

It's one giant block of text.
Also, can you imagine me trying to get 'put to work towards the real objective: the return of Germany to its proper place, the leader of Europe.' passed the editing process? I think I'll give our publisher a stroke! Now granted this was written in a different time(sad to have to say 20 years ago was a vastly different time) but still.

It bothers me more how completely unhistorical this briefing seems to be. Completely glosses over German involvement in the Spanish Civil War, kinda makes it sound like the Germans were just called in to walk into Madrid and done deal.

I don´t get what you are trying to say here at all.

The briefing is not supposed to be objective. It´s from the viewpoint of the 3rd Reich, obviously. They have never been accused of trying to be objective. If anything, the self-righteousness is probably understated. Otherwise plausible enough.

KesaAnna wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:13 am I sorta , kinda , am surprised that the original grand campaign is a German campaign.

--- Except I'm not surprised.

Generally , the Germans had the coolest - looking uniforms and gear , plus the most variety .

--- Except we cannot come right out and say that.

The actual Third Reich / Wehrmacht flag is a lot prettier and generally cooler than the vague , generic , totally unhistorical , goofy , non - flag work - around everyone is using.

( No doubt if this game is still relevant a year from now someone will make a mod that uses the actual flag ---- but it won't be available from Steam , or from this site. )

My strong guess is that you have the same basic problem with the role play touches like briefings , debriefings , and a final victory cut scene.

For example , in that final victory cut scene , who is THE most likely , most appropriate , and best , candidate to pat you on the back , and congratulate you ?

..... ummmm , it would be a fellow it is best not to even name here.

Such is the way of things .

The style of the original Panzer General 1 was ironically pro-Nazi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrSybBJbhao

No one complained because people did *get* the irony.

Stupidity must have increased tenfold over the past few decades.

I don't think they want to be to accurate on the viewpoints of the Third Reich. It was evil and insane. No one should ever loose sight of that, even in a game.