Slitherine

Sad to say I'm having a difficult time figuring this game out.

Years of experience playing Board and for years now computer games including many like this one. Panzer Corp 1, Order of Battle, Unity of Command and many more.

Now though on the easiest difficulty setting level I often don't even come close. Loraine scenario which should historically not be all that hard grinds me up. Looks like the Germans put one or two more large battle of the bulge type groups. The game won't let me buy and place anything near what comes against me. Their numbers and quality are far above what I seem to have available. Even their air units far exceed in quality and strength.

Just griping for the heck of it. I can see from some of the posts that others are able to Master this, but alas I seem to draw blanks. Yes I meant that to be a pun.

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pm Sad to say I'm having a difficult time figuring this game out.

Years of experience playing Board and for years now computer games including many like this one. Panzer Corp 1, Order of Battle, Unity of Command and many more.

Now though on the easiest difficulty setting level I often don't even come close. Loraine scenario which should historically not be all that hard grinds me up. Looks like the Germans put one or two more large battle of the bulge type groups. The game won't let me buy and place anything near what comes against me. Their numbers and quality are far above what I seem to have available. Even their air units far exceed in quality and strength.

Just griping for the heck of it. I can see from some of the posts that others are able to Master this, but alas I seem to draw blanks. Yes I meant that to be a pun.

Have you checked out the many training and run through videos from Edmon?

This is a playlist of his guides that might be of some use. Or his run throughs on highests difficulty offer some great insights. He's taught us a thing or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-ZwkSj ... SqlUMLnFWX

Pat

Patrick Ward wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:21 pm

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pm Sad to say I'm having a difficult time figuring this game out.

Years of experience playing Board and for years now computer games including many like this one. Panzer Corp 1, Order of Battle, Unity of Command and many more.

Now though on the easiest difficulty setting level I often don't even come close. Loraine scenario which should historically not be all that hard grinds me up. Looks like the Germans put one or two more large battle of the bulge type groups. The game won't let me buy and place anything near what comes against me. Their numbers and quality are far above what I seem to have available. Even their air units far exceed in quality and strength.

Just griping for the heck of it. I can see from some of the posts that others are able to Master this, but alas I seem to draw blanks. Yes I meant that to be a pun.

Have you checked out the many training and run through videos from Edmon?

This is a playlist of his guides that might be of some use. Or his run throughs on highests difficulty offer some great insights. He's taught us a thing or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-ZwkSj ... SqlUMLnFWX

Pat

Wow, can I frame this comment somewhere?

The stand alone scenarios tend to be more difficult than the early campaign scenarios.
And can be quite brutal.
Some of the puzzles can be considered training exercises, but the 20+ turn ones are advanced and give expert players a run for their money.

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pmSad to say I'm having a difficult time figuring this game out.

I'm feeling the sentiment here. I came to PC2 after not having played any of the games since PG2/PG in the late 90's/early 2000's. I had watched a bunch of the beta streams (as stated, Edmon does some excellent work) and jumped in for a normal difficulty campaign. I managed to get through Kiev without a scenario loss, but there were more than a few last turn desperation attacks to do it. While I felt I had a grasp on how things worked, I decided to dial it back for some R&D time. Things I wanted to know - how best to use recons? Are AT units worth keeping around and if so, how to use them? Same with AD units. Is splitting units to get encirclement worth it or just risking those splits core units? How important is air superiority? Do I need an all pionere infantry force or can I mix in some of the specialty units regularly?

So there is a lot of things that I'm going to spend a few scenarios in campaign after campaign to work out. I suspect I'll do it again after I go deeper into Russia, to North Africa, etc as I suspect things will change later in the war and with larger maps/battles. The one thing that I have learned is that if you are too aggressive... this game will punish you. I've had the most success probing with recons, moving forward cautiously and picking when and where and how to fight (as best as one can). It may not be as fun as rampaging through open fields in Tiger tanks looking for unattended artillery to attack, but it's probably more realistic in that boldness comes with a real risk/reward calculation to make.

Ishihara wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:47 am Are AT units worth keeping around and if so, how to use them?

I'm not much further than you with the game, but it seems AT units are great - I don't know how I could have made a bridgehead in north Kiev without them. I parked an AT behind my tanks, which frankly are not a match for T-34 and KV2, The AT got free shots against the Russian tanks, keeping losses manageable (nearly lost my tanks, did lose my recon). Going forward, I would imagine the best open terrain formation going forward is tank-AT-tank backed by a 150mm gun.

I am not sure if the supporting AT fire is as effective as if they directly fired on an attacker, but if it is, it will get devastating when German AT starts fielding long 75mm guns.

How important is air superiority?

In all these PG type games, I always find air units invaluable. How else are the Germans in 1941 going to kill T-34 and KV tanks? Stukas do it without loss. Also the Russian air force seems to keep taking bites out my own armour, so wiping them out is a priority. (My AD is not always in the right place and anyway doesn't kill - it helps marginally in deterring attack and making it easier for your fighters to get an edge.)

The big attraction for air units is mobility - the weather can limit you, but otherwise you can often get value from them each turn whereas ground units struggle to be at the right place at the right time.

It may seem like "cheating" but if one is struggling, it is worth considering giving the commander more points (and perks) at the beginning of the game and starting the campaign with a leg up. If you feel bad about that, then give the AI the advantage of +5 hp that is another of the game setup options.

gunnergoz wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:05 am If you feel bad about that, then give the AI the advantage of +5 hp that is another of the game setup options.

Please do not do this if you are new to the game. +5 enemy HP Manstein difficulty is probably the single hardest difficulty multiplier you can apply to the game. And it makes other negatives such as no mid mission reinforcements apocalyptic.

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pm Sad to say I'm having a difficult time figuring this game out.
Loraine scenario which should historically not be all that hard grinds me up.

How did you do in the Tutorial campaign? I won it at first attempt on medium difficulty, it's the best way to learn because tips are coming up onscreen all the time.

Ishihara wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:47 am

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pmSad to say I'm having a difficult time figuring this game out.

Are AT units worth keeping around and if so, how to use them?
Same with AD units.
How important is air superiority?

Is splitting units to get encirclement worth it or just risking those splits core units?

Do I need an all pionere infantry force or can I mix in some of the specialty units regularly?

To answer the first few questions, I am playing through the campaign with the negative trait denied aircraft, and the positive trait anti air veteran. Without aircraft I am relying more on AA, AT, and artillery. So no you do not absolutely need an air force, at least not through France and Africa. But you do need 88s with AA veteran trait, and the speed that they can move is the speed of your army, because any unit not under their umbrella gets smacked. A rapid deployment hero works great on an 88 I have found.

As far as AT, without stukas I find them necessary to penetrate the heavier armor of the allies, and during an advance like to have an AT gun adjacent to two or three panzers. AT was not very useful until it became self propelled.

I don't split units and find pincer movements work fine. The game is very good and landing surprise counter attacks and I wouldn't want half strength units.

You do need other infantry types besides pioneres as they don't have a good defense rating. If you find yourself in close quarters infantry and heavy infantry is very useful. My pioneres never lead, they are only brought up when I attack as fortified position.

I think one key to an easy life is liberal use of the 15cm gun.

It defends your front line against both tanks and infantry, allowing you to push forward about 3 tiles a turn (that's how far you can usually move it and still unpack it) and it also serves to suppress dug in infantry so your pioneers can do their jobs pushing them out for you. It is very critical that you go heavy on the pioneers (I run them exclusively) because they are the only unit that is effective in urban combat due to their high (and critically important for urban combat) close defence rating of 8.

Take your time and don't try to win the map quickly, instead aim to finish the map on time and use the extra time to prevent losses whenever possible.

Edmon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:13 am Take your time and don't try to win the map quickly, instead aim to finish the map on time and use the extra time to prevent losses whenever possible.

This is critical - the extra prestige for wining early is nothing compared to what it will cost you in loses pushing to fast and not properly setting up your attacks.

One of Edmon's youtube video's does a very good job explaining this with maths and all! (I think it's the first one in his latest play through on the highest difficulty)

Thanks folks, I appreciate all the replies and advice.

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pm Now though on the easiest difficulty setting level I often don't even come close. Loraine scenario which should historically not be all that hard grinds me up..

Can I ask members a stupid question?- Where's the Lorraine scenario, I can't seem to find it?
Another daft question- I bought the 'PC2 General Edition' but I now see there's also a 'Field Marshall Edition', what the heck's that? Am I missing out on something?Should I have bought that instead?

PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:34 pm Can I ask members a stupid question?- Where's the Lorraine scenario, I can't seem to find it?
Another daft question- I bought the 'PC2 General Edition' but I now see there's also a 'Field Marshall Edition', what the heck's that? Am I missing out on something?Should I have bought that instead?

Field Marshall Edition includes the first two DLCs, when they are released.

New Game > Scenarios > Lorraine

Both the General and FM edition claim 4 new scenarios, I assume they are the same.
Note make sure you have the .7 update, the .6 update is missing some.

PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:34 pm

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pm Now though on the easiest difficulty setting level I often don't even come close. Loraine scenario which should historically not be all that hard grinds me up..

Can I ask members a stupid question?- Where's the Lorraine scenario, I can't seem to find it?
Another daft question- I bought the 'PC2 General Edition' but I now see there's also a 'Field Marshall Edition', what the heck's that? Am I missing out on something?Should I have bought that instead?

Go to start new game - then hit scenario, it should be there. When I updated to version 1.06 I lost it as a scenario but the latest patch .07 brings it back.

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:14 pm Go to start new game - then hit scenario, it should be there. When I updated to version 1.06 I lost it as a scenario but the latest patch .07 brings it back.

Yogi the Great wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:51 pmLoraine scenario which should historically not be all that hard grinds me up..

Thanks yes, I just updated to 07 and found the Lorraine scen and began playing it, but - gulp - my Americans were wiped out by turn 8 and I surrendered.
SPOILER ALERT- I got small footholds over the first river but the powerful German panzer counterattacks butchered me. With hindsight I should have bought plenty of M10 TD's for AT-defence to bleed his panzergruppen dry. My other excuse is that I was getting zero incoming prestige points, and when they ran out of the piggy bank I was dead as a dodo.

PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:56 pm Thanks yes, I just updated to 07 and found the Lorraine scen and began playing it, but - gulp - my Americans were wiped out by turn 8 and I surrendered.
SPOILER ALERT- I got small footholds over the first river but the powerful German panzer counterattacks butchered me. With hindsight I should have bought plenty of M10 TD's for AT-defence to bleed his panzergruppen dry. My other excuse is that I was getting zero incoming prestige points, and when they ran out of the piggy bank I was dead as a dodo.

Yea when I first tried Lorraine I was surprised by the ferocity of the german counterattacks.

Played this scenario. Much harder than I expected. So many German armored units that counterattack very fiercely. I had too much artillery and not enough AT/fighter support. Ended up losing basically my entire army, but managed a turn 20 out of 20 win.

Units left alive at the end:


The dead far outnumber the living:


Also, lol at '5' prestige remaining. I think I can get the survivors of the battle a pack of cigarettes for 5 prestige? This, by the way, is why it's really hard to make a really hard campaign... a Pyrrhic scenario such as this... it's kind of game over even if you 'win'.

I've tried a couple of the random scenarios. Kind of strange on one level, but also kind of fun to play. I know a couple of games is an early call, but one thing but so far the problem of ridicules amounts of enemy wave attcks present in some scenarios of the regular game is not as big of a problem, even so one of the random was (US against UK) was a very tight fight.

Nice to see I'm not the only one having problems with the unbalanced games, maybe something could be done in the future to make them better.

I found the Lorraine scenario to be fairly straightforward, although I did burn through a large portion of my prestige. I had an armour column backed up by two tank destroyers, however, so a large portion of the German panzers were obliterated in an attempt to force their way through my armour. The force I built performed well, but in hindsight it was artillery heavy -- it turned out that despite being the defending side the Germans lack defensive enplacements other than the one across the river from your starting location, so my investment in counter-artillery was a completely unnecessary drain -- and I would've benefitted from a slight increase in air power and more actual boots on the ground.