Slitherine

Hi,
in a recent tournament with some friends we had a discussione relative to the rule at pag. 114 “ FRAGMENTED. Battle group can make a simple move to RETIRE AWAY from all enemy ……………”.
RETIRE AWAY means the Fragmented BG can turn 180 deg and make a simple move?
many thanks
Sergio

sergiomonteleone wrote:Hi,
in a recent tournament with some friends we had a discussione relative to the rule at pag. 114 “ FRAGMENTED. Battle group can make a simple move to RETIRE AWAY from all enemy ……………”.
RETIRE AWAY means the Fragmented BG can turn 180 deg and make a simple move?
many thanks
Sergio

Only if its Light Foot or Light Horse all other troops can turn 180 degrees but not move.
Dave

Good question.

The BG can can make a Simple Move (look at the Complex Move Table) without a CMT (since it's Simple, no CMT is required) and that move must be to retire away from all enemy within 12 MUs.

A CMT is required for any Complex Move and also for Simple Moves that don't meet the requirement above.

It might have been clearer to word this as say a CMT is needed for Simple Moves that don't meet the retire away requirement.

Mike



Routing due to failed CMT for being fragmented when charged = "fragbagged"

Quick guess on this one, if you want to move away from an enemy within 12 a simple move can be done without making CMT.

If you want to move closer to the enemy (why you want to I am not sure) you have to make a CMT to move closer, regardless of whether it is normally classed as a simple move or not.

My guess this is a kind of morale check to see if your troops actually want to get closer to the enemy or not, and may be reluctant to close the gap to less than 12 MU.
Whole lot easier to herd them to a friendly table edge than back into the face of the enemy.

david53 wrote:

sergiomonteleone wrote:Hi,
in a recent tournament with some friends we had a discussione relative to the rule at pag. 114 “ FRAGMENTED. Battle group can make a simple move to RETIRE AWAY from all enemy ……………”.
RETIRE AWAY means the Fragmented BG can turn 180 deg and make a simple move?
many thanks
Sergio

Only if its Light Foot or Light Horse all other troops can turn 180 degrees but not move.
Dave

Many thanks for all th answers.
Obviously I know that only LF and LH can turn 180 deg.
But in all the book there isn't the explication relative to RETIRE AWAY.

I guess the Fragmented BG can turn 180 deg and make a simple move. Is it correct, even if hte BG isn't of skirmishers?
Sergio

sergiomonteleone wrote:

david53 wrote:

sergiomonteleone wrote:Hi,
in a recent tournament with some friends we had a discussione relative to the rule at pag. 114 “ FRAGMENTED. Battle group can make a simple move to RETIRE AWAY from all enemy ……………”.
RETIRE AWAY means the Fragmented BG can turn 180 deg and make a simple move?
many thanks
Sergio

Only if its Light Foot or Light Horse all other troops can turn 180 degrees but not move.
Dave

Many thanks for all th answers.
Obviously I know that only LF and LH can turn 180 deg.
But in all the book there isn't the explication relative to RETIRE AWAY.




I guess the Fragmented BG can turn 180 deg and make a simple move. Is it correct, even if hte BG isn't of skirmishers?
Sergio

As I understand it, "retire" is simply the general military term for moving away from the enemy under control. So this is just saying "If the move you want to do is a simple move and results in your moving away from enemy, then you don't need a CMT. " It does not suddenly give you the ability to do complex or impossible moves if they result in your moving away from enemy.

THere are three kinds of move you can do.

1. Complex move: needs CMT
2. Simple move, not retiring from enemy: needs CMT
3. Simple move, retiring from enemy: no need for CMT

Impossible moves are still impossible.

Yes its being used generally here. You ave to test if you go nearer any enemy within XXX. So if two battlelines face off then going backwards is allowed, and turning on the spot preparatory to doing os is as well. If the enemy get anything behind you you will need to test to even get away - deliberate and realistic envelopment effect.

Si

sergiomonteleone wrote: I guess the Fragmented BG can turn 180 deg and make a simple move. Is it correct, even if hte BG isn't of skirmishers?
Sergio

No, the table adds nothing to what you could normally do. Instead, because you are Fragmented it adds the restriction that you need to take a CMT to make any Simple move if it does not meet the retiring away requirement (plain dictionary meaning as lawrenceg said). So if you normally need a CMT to turn 180, you still need one.

Mike

and turning on the spot preparatory to doing os is as well

Does it specifically state this anywhere. The BG is moving but not getting further away, so should CMT (IMO).

philqw78 wrote:Does it specifically state this anywhere. The BG is moving but not getting further away, so should CMT (IMO).

Tactically, turning is retiring? Physically, its front edge moves away?

Further from who? It may move closer to its greatest threat

I would think turning 180 degrees would still be treated as per the CMT for your troop type, just harder to perform since your fragmented, yet another bad thing that happens to you.

As for moving as long as its physically away from any enemy within 12 MU you don't have to make a CMT to move them with a simple move.

Hope that helps clear some of that up.

But drilled troops don't CMT to turn. So if they have LF 2 MU to their front and HF 1 MU to their rear they can turn to face without getting further from anybody, without taking a CMT, and improving their tactical position.

shall wrote:Yes its being used generally here. You ave to test if you go nearer any enemy within XXX. So if two battlelines face off then going backwards is allowed, and turning on the spot preparatory to doing os is as well. If the enemy get anything behind you you will need to test to even get away - deliberate and realistic envelopment effect.

Si

Many thanks for all the answers.
In fact in the manouvre chapiter only LH and LF can turn 180 deg and mouve away. Drilled can only turn 180 deg.
Sergio