Slitherine

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:48 pm**

I have requested a Steam refund - pending - I have "6 hours" in game, some time was spent in the editor.

Bottom Line:

This game should not have been released in its current state. The developer responses of 'more is coming' is not acceptable. At least a hotfix should have been released by now, given the instability of multiplayer.

The campaign is really just a re-hash of PzC 1. Nothing original or innovative went into this release, in fact several features such as Hero generation actually were REMOVED, so technically we went back in time.

MP is broke - suffering from crashes to desktop.

Graphics are mediocre at best, and sound design is awful.

Not mod friendly - unless you are familiar with the Unity Engine

Something seems off with the gameplay mechanics - I have had units 'encircled' even with clear ties to my lines - the lack of a visible frontline (ala Order of Battle) is frustrating and the dumbed-down supply is also removed from the original PzC 1.

The amount of content for MP is absurd - only 6 head to head scenarios and 2 cooperative scenarios

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:04 pm**

MikeAP wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:48 pm I have requested a Steam refund - pending - I have "6 hours" in game, some time was spent in the editor.

Bottom Line:

This game should not have been released in its current state. The developer responses of 'more is coming' is not acceptable. At least a hotfix should have been released by now, given the instability of multiplayer.

The campaign is really just a re-hash of PzC 1. Nothing original or innovative went into this release, in fact several features such as Hero generation actually were REMOVED, so technically we went back in time.

MP is broke - suffering from crashes to desktop.

Graphics are mediocre at best, and sound design is awful.

Not mod friendly - unless you are familiar with the Unity Engine

Something seems off with the gameplay mechanics - I have had units 'encircled' even with clear ties to my lines - the lack of a visible frontline (ala Order of Battle) is frustrating and the dumbed-down supply is also removed from the original PzC 1.

The amount of content for MP is absurd - only 6 head to head scenarios and 2 cooperative scenarios

You do realize that the vanilla campaign for PC1 was more or less (I'd say slightly less) a re-hash of Panzer General? The vanilla campaign is what it is. I've played until Moscow 41 and it works more than well as vanilla campaign. I'm certainly looking forward to the Grand campaign DLC:s (if they make them) but the vanilla campaign in PC2 is not "worse" than in PC1.

Feel free to refund of course, but the critique against the vanilla campaign seems a bit off I'd say.

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:10 pm**

MikeAP wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:48 pm I have requested a Steam refund - pending - I have "6 hours" in game, some time was spent in the editor.

Bottom Line:

This game should not have been released in its current state. The developer responses of 'more is coming' is not acceptable. At least a hotfix should have been released by now, given the instability of multiplayer.

The campaign is really just a re-hash of PzC 1. Nothing original or innovative went into this release, in fact several features such as Hero generation actually were REMOVED, so technically we went back in time.

MP is broke - suffering from crashes to desktop.

Graphics are mediocre at best, and sound design is awful.

Not mod friendly - unless you are familiar with the Unity Engine

Something seems off with the gameplay mechanics - I have had units 'encircled' even with clear ties to my lines - the lack of a visible frontline (ala Order of Battle) is frustrating and the dumbed-down supply is also removed from the original PzC 1.

The amount of content for MP is absurd - only 6 head to head scenarios and 2 cooperative scenarios

Sorry that to hear that but I mostly disagree.

1) Its a WW2 war game they all follow the same timeline. IMO there are several improvements to PC1.

2)I'm playing several MP with no issues (except Aachen). I will say I find your opponent joining while you are playing to be problematic. I'm playing some knucklehead who keeps sending me chats that he likes sheep and onions while I'm playing my turn. Haven't figured out how to turn chat off.

3) I agree the graphics can be improved, I don't listen to the sound after a few turns.

4) No issue for me.

5) I have no problem with the game mechanics except I'm getting my butt kicked. I haven't played PC1 is several years.

6) There's plenty of MP content for early on but do hope more is added over time.

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:28 pm**

MickMannock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:04 pm You do realize that the vanilla campaign for PC1 was more or less (I'd say slightly less) a re-hash of Panzer General?

Exactly my point: how is that acceptable? There could've been something done to innovate - maybe a focus on smaller lesser known battles - hell, something a-historical? I don't know.....I'm not the developer.

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:38 pm**

MikeAP wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:28 pm Exactly my point: how is that acceptable? There could've been something done to innovate - maybe a focus on smaller lesser known battles - hell, something a-historical? I don't know.....I'm not the developer.

The truth is, most players want to replay famous battles and don't care about obscure stuff. However, if you look at scenarios like Moscow, Stalingrad and Kursk, you will find that they are handled very differently, compared to Panzer Corps. There are also a-historical scens, including some which were not featured in previous games (e. g. Along the Volga and Soviet New Capital).

In any event, sorry that you did not like the game, but if you don't like it, getting a refund is the only logical solution. I hope that Steam will approve your request.

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:10 pm**

I think Steam only refunds before two hours of play ( & forum time).

If the PC2 scenarios were close to PG2 I'd be fine with that. Haven't played PG2 in 20 years.

The PG2 Kursk scenarios were awesome.

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:41 pm**

I think lack of content is the criticism this game deserves the least. The original campaign has 61 missions, compared to 26/27 in those of Panzer Corps/Panzer General 2 (PG1 had a little more). There's much more detail to begin with.

Sure, a 'Boom, the Germans conquer the world again' campaign is a bit of a lowest common denominator, but this is what enables more detailed and less obvious content to come out later (and not the other way around, unfortunately). That's exactly what PzC1 was like!

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:47 pm**

Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any title that is requested within 14 days of purchase and has been played for less than 2 hours. Even if you fall outside of the refund rules we've described, you can submit a request and we'll take a look at it.

Code: Select all

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6695-QIKM-7966

correct as posted the link for anyone who needs above

Posted: **Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:51 pm**

the sound design immediately struck me as very weak, politically correct, bland.

You hardly hear any boots clapping or engine roaring compared to PzC1

I didn't ask a refund even though I don't like it at first glance.

The MP is horribly bad. After a turn you go back to the main screen and you have to select MP again.. and again select log in method and again log in .. jeeeezzz!

No friend list. No general chat.. No feeling of community at all inside the game interface.

Posted: **Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:34 am**

As I play on strategical map, it's less beautifull and usefull than past games.
It even should be good if we could be able to unzoom further the strat' map.
However, the game features have been well refined, and I love the quirks of our general.
So, no refund for me.

Posted: **Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:41 am**

I am liking the game to date.
The potential for greatness for this niche game exists.
The Editor is a huge plus & the Slitherine/Matrix community is second to none when...assisting in improving what needs to be.
Three things I would wish for are 'true lan' (ok, I know that is not happening...at least it has 'true hotseat'), better (any?) modding capabilities, & some UI Scaling per the texts.
Otherwise, I am very satisfied so far.
My only concern is that this title goes the way of 'Sovereignty: Crown of Kings'.
Now there was a game that coulda, shoulda, woulda been GREAT.

Posted: **Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:06 am**

While I'm probably not going to refund the game, there are things that I am really not happy about.
Please accept this as constructive feedback from a fan.

- In terms of gameplay it feels like a downgrade from Panzercorps 1

- There's ONE campaign (Wehrmacht), not five !
- General lack of scenarios (see above)
Grand campaign '39 of PzC1 had 11 scenarios that you could play consequently, due to different branches (14 total).
Current part of Wehrmacht 39 campaign has 6 scenarios you can play consequently (12 total). This makes the campaign feel super-short.
More branching != more content.
- The commander weaknesses are very punishing. Imho, I don't think this part is well balanced.
- You have to buy captured equipment? wth O.o
- Encirclement rules are weird, a departure from PzC1 and it's visually hard to tell whether you moving a unit will get it encircled or not.
Please bring back the ZoC rules from PzC1. It's odd that I have to pick a commander perk just to get it working as it was before in PzC1.
At least make it a game option before starting a campaign.
- Splitting units - never use. Seems like a gimmick.
- For the most part AI is rather dull and does not react well to the situation, often suicides itself on your well-defended positions.

This is just what I have so far...
I want to see this game become better than it is right now.

Posted: **Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:53 am**

There are some comments that really suprised me, specially these two subjects:
1- "bad" graphics
2- campaign "too short"

Seriously guys?.
1- The graphics are just amazing. There is no, literally, other turn based strategy game with these level of details on its units. Not to mention the countless amount of skins.
2- I am wondering if some people know how to count... PG and PC1 campaigns had 25 (more or less) scenarios. PC2 has 61, how on earth that is "lack of content". And please guys stop comparing the PC1 Grand Campaigns, those were DLCs for godsake. There is no doubt this game will reach that point in the future

About the new game mechanics I understand they will no suit every player out there.

Best regards,
Akkula

Posted: **Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:27 am**

MikeAP wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:28 pm
MickMannock wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:04 pm You do realize that the vanilla campaign for PC1 was more or less (I'd say slightly less) a re-hash of Panzer General?
Exactly my point: how is that acceptable? There could've been something done to innovate - maybe a focus on smaller lesser known battles - hell, something a-historical? I don't know.....I'm not the developer.

It's World War 2. I'd be upset if I didn't get fighter the usual battles of World War 2. The genre comes with a certain expectation.

Other than that, I expect there will be DLCs in the vein of the Grand Campaigns for PC1, and I expect those DLCs to have another level of innovation and detail.

Posted: **Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:49 am**

MickMannock wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:27 am Other than that, I expect there will be DLCs in the vein of the Grand Campaigns for PC1, and I expect those DLCs to have another level of innovation and detail.

I share this expectation, with an extra caveat. It can't just be the same Grand Campaign. I don't think it's right to re-sell content that is basically just ported over from the original game to the new one. Everything needs to be original, and any battles we 'revisit' should be improved versions. So many new mechanisms exist in Panzer Corps 2, such as supply lines and encirclement, just moving maps directly over isn't feasible.

Posted: **Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:04 am**

Kerensky wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:49 am
MickMannock wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:27 am Other than that, I expect there will be DLCs in the vein of the Grand Campaigns for PC1, and I expect those DLCs to have another level of innovation and detail.
I share this expectation, with an extra caveat. It can't just be the same Grand Campaign. I don't think it's right to re-sell content that is basically just ported over from the original game to the new one. Everything needs to be original, and any battles we 'revisit' should be improved versions. So many new mechanisms exist in Panzer Corps 2, such as supply lines and encirclement, just moving maps directly over isn't feasible.

Totally agree. And that is also what I implied with the "another level of innovation and detail".

Slitherine

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