Slitherine

Hi all,

A couple of questions:

1)

I've always been under the impression that Undrilled have a hard time wheeling, but now for the life of me I can't find it.

P41:

DIFFICULT FORWARD MOVES:

A difficult forward move is one that includes a single wheel and/or is less than the troop's full available move distance - unless either:
a) All of the movement is more than 6MU from any enemy (incuding the enemy camp but not an enemy commander's base), or
b) A commander is with the battle group or battle line. He must start the phase with a battle group and remain with it for the whole phase.

P42: (not worrying about anything but "Other Undrilled"

Advances:
Difficult forward moves(see above) with no more than a single wheel. = Complex
Any other forward move with no more than a single wheel. = Simple

So, given that a wheel automatically means that both corners of a BG are not moving the same distance, I'm assuming that the 'is less than the troop's full available move distance' does not mean all of the BG, just the bit that is moving maximum.

From that I see that any time a BG wants to wheel (so long as it's a single wheel) and it moves it's full move then it's free to do so.

If this is the case I think I've been ripping myself off.

2)

Contractions:

Lets say you have a BG of 6 Huscarls (Undrilled/Superior/HF) in a formation 2 deep. They are 5" away from an enemy. You want to contract to a column and wheel 90 degrees to the left.

I declare a complex manouver:

Contracting frontage by 1 or 2 bases with a SIMPLE advance of at least 3 MU's before or after.

I roll a 6, but have an inspirational commander near by so get to 8 which is a pass.

I measure the outside corner of the far left base and move it 3" ensuring that the inside corner doesn't move until it's completed its wheel. I then stack the rest of the unit behind the lead base forming a column.

Does that sound right?

I think it is right, but I haven't been playing it that way because I considered that the inside portion of the element hasn't moved its full 3"... but that is probably DBMesque getting to me.

I'd appreciate someone getting back to me on this, with examples if I've misread anything.

Thanks

Ian

DaiSho wrote:From that I see that any time a BG wants to wheel (so long as it's a single wheel) and it moves it's full move then it's free to do so.

Yes, provided it passes a CMT if it's a Difficult Move for Other Undrilled - but that answer gets you back where you started.

The short cut to avoid becoming confused is to turn to the CMT table on p173 and write "DIFFICULT MOVE!" on the first line of Advances as that is the Difficult Move line. Problem solved.

Contractions:

p46 says that both front corners of the final formation must have moved 3 MU to qualify as having advanced at least 3 MU. Some troop types have enough movement to wheel as well, other don't.

Cheers,

Mike

Hi Ian - I agree with you that moving short referes to the part of the base moving the most - so if at least some point of the base moves its full move then it has not moved short - of course this also means that it must have wheeled if one corner has moved more than another.

I think the answer to your first statement:

"I've always been under the impression that Undrilled have a hard time wheeling, but now for the life of me I can't find it."

lies in the definition of a Difficult Forward Move that you quote in your post.

DIFFICULT FORWARD MOVES:

"A difficult forward move is one that includes a single wheel and/or is less than the troop's full available move distance - unless either:
a) All of the movement is more than 6MU from any enemy (incuding the enemy camp but not an enemy commander's base), or
b) A commander is with the battle group or battle line. He must start the phase with a battle group and remain with it for the whole phase." - my underlines.

So - if the Undrilled Other BG is within 6mu of an enemy bg at any time during it's move and is not accommpanied by a Commander then wheeling or moving short is a Difficult Forward Move and is therefore not SIMPLE and therefore requires to pass a CMT.

So Undrilled Other do have a hard time wheeling or moving short if any of the move is with 6mu of an enemy bg. You can cancel the difficulty by attaching a Commander and wheel or move short as you please.

On your second point it says "Contract and make a SIMPLE advance of at least 3 MU".

If your Undrilled Other bg is within 6 MU of an enemy bg then making a SIMPLE advance after the contraction will be limited to moving a full move straight ahead - no wheels, no short moves because they are "Difficult Advances" and complex for your Undrilled other bg.

Now another question - after passing the CMT to contract, could you test again to do a difficult forward move to allow your desired wheel - I can find no wording to prohibit this but neither can I find any to allow it. My "feeling" is that the intent is only one CMT per movement phase but would appreciate any input from those closer to God.

Regards,
Gary

And as Mikek pointed out page 46 makes it quiet explicit about what constitutes moving at least 3mu - bugger - missed that bit.

Gary

Hey - how come i am a peasant!!!!???
Gary

garyp wrote:Hey - how come i am a peasant!!!!???
Gary

You run french and you have to ask that???

Actually, it's all to do with posts. Make more posts, go up the scale

garyp wrote:"A difficult forward move is one that includes a single wheel and/or is less than the troop's full available move distance - unless either:

Yeah, it's as clear as a bell now. For some stupid reason I couldn't get my head around and/or. I didn't get the 'or' bit, so I was thinking if it includes a single wheel but makes a full move, then it's fine right? Well, no, Ian, you're wrong .

Ian

garyp wrote:Now another question - after passing the CMT to contract, could you test again to do a difficult forward move to allow your desired wheel - I can find no wording to prohibit this but neither can I find any to allow it. My "feeling" is that the intent is only one CMT per movement phase but would appreciate any input from those closer to God.

Yes. CMTs can happen at various times in the sequence of play and you can only try once. In Manoeuvre, roll the CMT, then decide what if anything you want to do - any ONE line on the table (see p41-42). That contraction line allows a SIMPLE move, not a COMPLEX move, so you either do the Difficult Move OR the Contraction with Simple advance, OR have a commander with you and that move that was Difficult and Complex is now Simple.

Highlights the importance of commander personal leadership with Undrilled troops.

garyp wrote:Hey - how come i am a peasant!!!!??? Gary

Awakening political consciousness is the third step to peasant rebellion!

you have posted 3 posts thats why.