Slitherine

Compared to OOB, the maps look flat, the animation is wooden, the combat is unrealistic, the combat predictors and results graphics are obtrusive, and the currently selected unit's circular rotating hashes and allowable movement pips would drive me crazy. Other than that, it looks great!

Have you actually played it?

Bru, you should post this in the PzC2 forum, not here. Be brave and embrace the hailing return fire there!
The lack of terrain camouflage and sight block is enough reason for me not to bother about this game.

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:50 pm Have you actually played it?

No, obviously, but the release date announcement contains a link to an extensive playthrough demo on Twitch (by "Pixelated Apollo"). I watched enough of that to form my opinions.

Horst wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:13 pm Bru, you should post this in the PzC2 forum, not here. Be brave and embrace the hailing return fire there!
The lack of terrain camouflage and sight block is enough reason for me not to bother about this game.

Hmmm. I would, except my avatar and title would be a dead giveaway and probably lead to Frankenstein-like villagers chasing me with firebrands and pitchforks! You, however, have a generic avatar, Mr. Battleship . . .

I did it so you don’t have to.

Zekedia222 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:34 pm I did it so you don’t have to.

Brave man! I hereby promote you to sergeant, once you have made the requisite number of posts.

PzC 2 is still in Beta phase, it improves with each update...

Slightly off topic, but still in the same ballpark, Shouldn´t OOB try to get the next DLC out before and maybe try for a quick follow up, so as not to loose too many players to PzC 2.

If the gap between the next couple of DLCs will be as great as between the next and the last, I will most certainly get immersed in the new PzC 2 in between.

Terminator, you must tell them what to fix, at least with graphics and stuff like that.
My uncle had a saying,’You can’t fix something if you don’t know where you went wrong.’

WarHomer wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:34 am Slightly off topic, but still in the same ballpark, Shouldn´t OOB try to get the next DLC out before and maybe try for a quick follow up, so as not to loose too many players to PzC 2.

If the gap between the next couple of DLCs will be as great as between the next and the last, I will most certainly get immersed in the new PzC 2 in between.

Good point. I'm sure that has occurred to The Artistocrats.

Zekedia222 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:37 am Terminator, you must tell them what to fix, at least with graphics and stuff like that.
My uncle had a saying,’You can’t fix something if you don’t know where you went wrong.’

This is not just an update. This is imminent new game release for them after a development/beta process that has taken years to finish. I very much doubt that any further changes to their graphics will be taking place between now and March or for the foreseeable future thereafter. No, these are design decisions and they are committed to them going forward.

Might PzC 2 be a terrific game otherwise (despite being limited to Europe, AFAIK?) but for some reason, I am very visual in this genre and as the thread topic says, I have been spoiled by OOB's presentation. PzC 2 just does not measure up in this regard and that would bother me all the time I was playing it.

I must say I am not very impressed by the Panzer Corps 2 so far. Most notably the supply system is not as good as OOB. On the other hand, there are things I like:

choosing your general's bonuses / penalties

This idea is also present in the Fantasy general 2 and I think it gives more replayability value. On the other hand it might be difficult to balance the campaign as I'm sure people will find a way to exploit this game mechanic.

Unit slots

Adopted from OOB, although their balance choice is quite different. As far as I could see in the beta the light tanks require less supply than infantry and also transport units do not use supply at all.

I will be watching closely on this game and I'll probably create a thread just to compare differences between OOB and Panzer Corps 2

Initial scenario bonuses

I really like the idea that you can choose which scenario you want to play and each comes with a different initial bonus. I don't necessarily think that we need two scenarios to choose from as it requires higher development cost. I like the idea of choosing the initial bonus. To be fair, OOB did something similar in the recent campaign where you are asked if you want to do something at the start. For example, you could choose to execute a small diversion attack in the Ardennes battle in the Endsieg campaign. I think we need more of that.

But Unity of Command 2 is very slick looking and has the most sophisticated logistics and supply system - indeed supply system really is the whole game. I am a big fan of OOB but UOC 2 is very good indeed

Uh, when they had Panzer General and then came out with Panzer General 3D and stuff I didn't really like that either.

An interesting question and answer over there.

bru888 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:34 pm

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:50 pm Have you actually played it?

No, obviously, but the release date announcement contains a link to an extensive playthrough demo on Twitch (by "Pixelated Apollo"). I watched enough of that to form my opinions.

Don't know why "obviously", as the beta is still ongoing.
(One of your alter egos may be in...? )

I'm also in the habit to watch "gameplay" videos prior to testing the game myself, but I think you don't do the game justice. I didn't watch the video you've mentioned and I won't talk about the mechanics here, but I like the game's graphics very much. Nice 4K support and scaling, adjustable UI and unit panel, the models are super crisp even when zoomed-in very close, real-time rendering of units in all the UI screens (with different insignia, camo/skins,..). No idea why you don't like the unit animation, looks good to me.

The map may look "flat" compared to the scale/size of units, okay, maybe.

But I agree fully with the infantry models, they look wooden and identical. They should do something about those. OoB did a good job with "mixing" different models inside each class.

Beauty (and ugliness) is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm surprised to see such a thread on this forum! I didn't think PzC2 would get disliked so fast here in OoB territories. I know the two games will soon be in competition with each other, but still.

OOB's presentation is one my favorite points too. Even if strategy games are not meant to be visually impressive, they're still video games, and visuals are important. OOB looks quite cartoony, which is something I like very much. PzC1 was all gray and sinister, whereas OOB has vivid green plains, colorful terrain, charming little towns or sprawling metropolis (man, that Tokyo map... I was blown away by the sheer number of buildings in the city), lively combat and animation, and cool 3D units.

PzC2 looks somewhat in the middle. It's not as colorful as OOB, and the infantry unit animation looks a bit stiff (except for airplanes, which have cool movement animations). But the actual combat animations and effects look pretty good, I like how those explosions actually raise some dirt. And the map in PzC2, with its aerial-like view, definitely has its charm.

I guess the main point will be content as well as game mechanics. The campaign quality (scenario design) will be an important factor. I really look forward to play PzC2, even if OOB (and its future DLCs) will always have a welcomed place in my strategy game library.

bru888 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 pm Compared to OOB, the maps look flat, the animation is wooden, the combat is unrealistic, the combat predictors and results graphics are obtrusive, and the currently selected unit's circular rotating hashes and allowable movement pips would drive me crazy. Other than that, it looks great!

What a really sad post

Let me correct you: the maps look very nice, the animations are good (except the infantry ones - they could be better), and combat prediction/move dots are there for playability. After a few scenarios, they fade from your mind...

Combat is really good. Definitely not "unrealistic" if you compare it to OOB. Both are turn/hex-based and 100% unrealistic

There is one caveat though: I sometimes feel the devs have gone too far in making certain unit types counters to other unit types. Like dive bombers vs tanks. But it is a relatively minor issue.

And yes, I've played quite a bit of OOB, which I liked quite a bit, but not as much as PC type games.

A few things I think are better in OOB: supply and navy. Supply in PC is simplified. It's a design choice. Focus on the fighting. I wish logistics was a little more complex, but again a relatively minor issue. Naval combat is hugely simplified in PC, always has been, and furthermore plays a very minor part in the game.

Don't forget that PzC2 isn't finished yet! It improves with every iteration. But already I can say: I like it more than any General type game I've come across. And I do think I've played them all.

They won’t have fix such things. Remember, the game is near release.

nexusno2000 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:16 am

bru888 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:45 pm Compared to OOB, the maps look flat, the animation is wooden, the combat is unrealistic, the combat predictors and results graphics are obtrusive, and the currently selected unit's circular rotating hashes and allowable movement pips would drive me crazy. Other than that, it looks great!

What a really sad post

I think we are both a couple of fanboys. We each see what we want to see in a game because we like it. As I said above, it's in the eye of the beholder and I certainly stand by my impressions expressed in the OP. There is no way that I look at PzC 2 and come away with your opinions. And Zekedia is right; what you see now is what you will get.