Slitherine

Hi
Anyone got any information on when the Romans moved from a phalanx to a hastati-principes-triarii system? Was it organic or the result of deliberate reform? I have a book that talks about other unit types called something like rorarii and ascensi (?) but it doesn't explain them very well. Apparently they were based behind the Triarii at one stage.

Thanks

Eques wrote:Hi
Anyone got any information on when the Romans moved from a phalanx to a hastati-principes-triarii system? Was it organic or the result of deliberate reform? I have a book that talks about other unit types called something like rorarii and ascensi (?) but it doesn't explain them very well. Apparently they were based behind the Triarii at one stage.

Thanks

Oh, it's a very long story, but unfortunately nobody knows it exactly. Livio talk about Roman strategy, but many put his description under many doubts. Rorarii and accensi are mentioned only by him (for what I know) while Polibio didn't write anything about. Indeed Roman armies were at first very similar to whom of Etruschi (phalanx style with armament tied to the census). The process by which they converted to pilum has been slow, and likely due to the interaction with many other Italian tribes (Sanniti, but also Equi and Volsci). This process is little known and there are a lot of points not clear. For example, in the period of Camillo (about 400 BC) hastati have pilum and were the first line, behind them there were principes armed with spear (after some years principes would have got pila too, then also triarii). But hastati means "armed with spear" and "principes" "the ones who start" so many historian think there was an exchange with armaments and role between hastati and principes, but nobody knows it exactly. If you tell me the reason for which you want to know, I can try to give you more info.

Thanks.

Was interested at some point in recreating battles from the period of Rome's rise to power in Italy and wanted to know what style of Roman to use in, say, the Samnite Wars, the war against the Latin League and the wars against the Volsci.

Eques wrote:Thanks.

Was interested at some point in recreating battles from the period of Rome's rise to power in Italy and wanted to know what style of Roman to use in, say, the Samnite Wars, the war against the Latin League and the wars against the Volsci.

OK. I made a campaign game on Samnite Wars first with DBM, then with a my house rules (DBM stinks). I want to make some changes on it to adapt to FoG and also to enlarge the map so I can play different campaign (against Etruschi, the Celtic invasion, and so on). In this period Roman army already have the structure most known, but with important differences. A legion consist of: Leves, Hastati, Principes and Triarii (I don't mention Rorari and Accensi intentionally, because their role and existence is not accepted by all). A typical legion could be:
1x4 Leves (LF average unprotected javelin light spear)
1x4 Hastati (HF average protected drilled - light spear, swordsmen)
1x4 Principes (HF average protected drilled - offensive spearmen)
1x4 Triarii (HF superior armoured drilled - offensive spearmen)
Every 2 legions you can enlist a BG of Cav: 1x4 Cavalry (CV average protected/armoured drilled - light spear, swordsmen). In Samnite Wars a Campanian Ally is very likely.
The number of Triarii it's not an error, because in this period they were the same as Hastati and Principes. Hastati are not impact foot because the use of pilum in Roman army has been just introduced, so they are not enough proficient with it. (I read a theory by which hastati in this period were young warriors with lighter equipment who perform like ekdromoi in combination with principes). At last, Principes still use spear (they change to pilum before Punic Wars).