Slitherine

Why do Roman legions suffer from spiralling costs but none of the other major nation suffer the same penalty?

the carthaginians have the same problem...

No, the Carthigans only have it on the Sacred Band. This unit has this trait or restriction in numbers depending on the nation.

I am talking about the Phalanx which nations can produce in any quantity and have zero price increase.

Carthaginian mercenaries do increase in cost per type of merc, IIRC.

Spartan hoplite have increasing cost too.
Both of them are op units tho so it's ok

desertedfox wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:36 pm Why do Roman legions suffer from spiralling costs but none of the other major nation suffer the same penalty?

None of them have Legions. A legitimate question though, why don't all heavier units suffer this spiraling expense ?

I thought only provincial units had spiralling costs. Or are legions provincial units? I've never played Rome.

Hendricus wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:32 am

desertedfox wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:36 pm Why do Roman legions suffer from spiralling costs but none of the other major nation suffer the same penalty?

None of them have Legions. A legitimate question though, why don't all heavier units suffer this spiraling expense ?

Yes, that is what I meant. I know they don't have legions. In one current game I caanot match Macedonia's military strength. He builds Phalanx's to his hearts content at 100 each.

My next batch of Legions will cost me 338 EACH!

yes of course its expansive for rome... but for carthago the same, how i said... all heavy units of the carthaginians (like heavy mercenaries and golden band are more and more expansive per recruited unit!) and carthago has a big manpower penalty!!!
and very expanded provinces... rome is much easier than carthage

Okay, let me add Carthage to the list of disadvantaged nations. Does that make you happy? Good. Now lets get back to the point of my post.

Why does Rome, oh, and Carthage, have to to pay spiralling costs for their troops when phalanxes are not burdened by this.

Oh and just for the record saitososhimasa, all of Rome's troops (except calvary) are burdened by spiralling costs, not just the Legions.

Wasn't this 'spiraling cost' feature recently added to stop Rome (and others) becoming unstoppable in the mid-end game. IIRC Rome was previously capable of unlimited 20+ point legions that nothing, including Phalanx, could stop. I think this is meant to make Rome progress more slowly by ensuring that money and resources is spent on the infrastructure to support the regions rather than on unlimited OP legions that just steamroller everything.

Maybe so Morbio, that is why I am asking the question. Problem is, at turn 100, nations as strong or stronger than Rome are paying 100 points for Phalanxes, whilst I am paying 338 for each Legion.

I can't compete with those mathematics.

I haven't played long enough into a game to see a 20 point legion. Do they really exist?

But you shouldn't be losing many legions as they are so strong, I know because I'm suffering with them in Gaul! If you build your economy you will slowly be able to build more and more. IIRC I have seen 28 point legions.

Lol Morbio, okay so they can get powerful. However, in our game, I don't understand why Macedonia just doesn't declare war on me and win the game.

desertedfox wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:29 pm I haven't played long enough into a game to see a 20 point legion. Do they really exist?

I've just checked, you have 23 point units that are invading my country... are you trying to play down your strength?

Move to Empire level, you can afford more Imperial legion as the incremental cost is lower, on purpose. You just can't field 60 legions easily with Rome, that's on purpose. Both for game balance and for historicity.

And Auxiliae have a flat cost and are quite decent too.

Sacred Bands are meant to be an elite force, so they must be somehow rare, as Silver Shields for Antigonids.

Morbio wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:21 pm

desertedfox wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:29 pm I haven't played long enough into a game to see a 20 point legion. Do they really exist?

I've just checked, you have 23 point units that are invading my country... are you trying to play down your strength?

Lol..honestly I didn't even look at their individual strengths. It's a nice surprise thoguh, thx for pointing it out to me.

Pocus wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:20 am Move to Empire level, you can afford more Imperial legion as the incremental cost is lower, on purpose. You just can't field 60 legions easily with Rome, that's on purpose. Both for game balance and for historicity.

And Auxiliae have a flat cost and are quite decent too.

Sacred Bands are meant to be an elite force, so they must be somehow rare, as Silver Shields for Antigonids.

Cheers, thx for information re the Legions..

I was already well aware of the reasons for the rarity/cost of Sacred Bands/Silver Shields etc.

Honestly Rome is famous (especially in early to mid game period) for having armies wiped out repeatedly and just raising new ones, so really for historical sake the spiraling costs shouldn't kick in until after Rome already has 5-10 legions.

I think that the spiralling cost are justified, gameplay wise and history wise. Historically, the roman army didn’t rely solely on roman legions. During the Republic, Socii (represented here by Alae legions) made up a sizeable part of the Roman forces, and a lot of Auxilliaries where present to provide support.

The upkeep and pay of the Roman Legion was also one of the causes of the economic crisis that struck the Roman Empire and precipited its downfall, so that’s another historical region to keep spiralling costs, even for the Imperial Legions

If you are bankrupt because of the spiralling costs of your roman légions, it’s probably because you aren’t using the other units enough.
The legions constitute the core, but other troops (a lot of troops actually) support this core.

On a gameplay perspective, i think that the Roman Juggernaut, with its massive heavy infantry and other bonuses, has enough advantages already. Let’s not make it even easier by suppressing the increase in costs for the Légion.

I think there should be an increase in cost for other Heavy Infantry units for some factions (for exemple, the Phalanx of the Successor faction), but a small one, not as steep as the one for the Silver shields or the Sacred Band. Just to represent the difficulty of raising à large army and maintain it