Slitherine

For a 650 point 25mm army would eight BG be okey for the army and also whats the plus and minus to have pikes at ten instead of eight.

Cheers

8 would possibly be ok but likely to be brittle. At the recent Plymouth UK event even the Medieval armies with superior knights had 10 or so. How many generals do you have? At 650AP 3 is all you need and some armies, like the aforementioned medievals, had 2 only.

I had my pikes in 8s as it increased the BG numbers and at 25mm you are less likely to fight against much larger BGs so shouldn't suffer because of it. I also found the manouevrability better, not just as an individual BG but also in terms of being able to break a BG off from the battleline without compromising the line too much.

Steve P

david53 wrote:whats the plus and minus to have pikes at ten instead of eight.

Cheers

10 means that you can be 5 deep which means that you're more able to take casualties and still be an effective fighting force:

25% losses is more difficult to achieve.
You must lose 3 casualties BEFORE you lose a +POA for fighting less than 4 ranks deep.
Your number needed to 'Auto-Break' is higher.
if you decide to go 3 ranks wide (something that is probably ok depending on who you're fighting) you can STILL maintain 'Spear effectiveness' and lose a base.

The minus' is nothing, other than you losing 12 points (or there abouts) that you could use elsewhere. I guess it depends on whether you're using 10 bases because you have excess points, or if you're using it as a tactic.

At 650 points I'd think you'd want to put all of your points into someone who's actually going to fight, not someone who keeps you in the fight longer.

Ian

IIRC the 650 point army that won the 25mm section at Britcon last year had 8 BGs - obviously its how you use them

david53 wrote:For a 650 point 25mm army would eight BG be okey for the army and also whats the plus and minus to have pikes at ten instead of eight.

Cheers

personally i'm not so hot on tens. you only need three hits from shooting to have to test, and shooting is your nemesis. the extra two bases are points wasted in this case.

i sounds like a lot of shots, but... you'll be surprised.

personally i only go for 8 or 12. the 12s are good when they're 4-bases wide versus shooters (or 6!)

OldenTired wrote:

david53 wrote:For a 650 point 25mm army would eight BG be okey for the army and also whats the plus and minus to have pikes at ten instead of eight.

Cheers

personally i'm not so hot on tens. you only need three hits from shooting to have to test, and shooting is your nemesis. the extra two bases are points wasted in this case.

i sounds like a lot of shots, but... you'll be surprised.

personally i only go for 8 or 12. the 12s are good when they're 4-bases wide versus shooters (or 6!)

How is 8 any different than 10 in shooting - especially with Pike? You only count the front 3 ranks, so you could have 1000 elements, and if you're two wide you have the same problems.

I'm thinking of 10's for my Impact Foot armies, but I haven't decided. I agree though, that in 650 points the points could be used elsewhere, which is why I said if there is 12 points and you don't know what to do with them, then possibly the extra two pike would come in handy.

Ian

10s can also be deployed 3 wide at necessity although they lose a POA, but being able to fill in the 4th rank and not lose a POA against opponents such as other pikes, or armoured spearmen or legionaries, is the primary reason to go with 10. So its value is circumstantial.