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Who fights in overlap
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:14 am
by philqw78
I didn't let this move
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:43 am
by marioslaz
IMHO this move shouldn't be legal, because in manoeuvre phase you can contact enemy only to fight as overlap and in this case overlap already exist on that side. This move can be seen as a charge with interpenetration. I know that actually it isn't, but if this interpretation of rule were allowed, you would have a result which, in concrete, it's the same. Again, this is just my point of view.
If your BG were in that situation for another events' succession I would say that this it's to your decision.
Mario.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:58 am
by petedalby
Setting aside the legality of the move....which another thread has concluded is legal - there is nothing stopping such an interpenetration - and the cavalry have moved to provide an overlap.
I would say the cavalry fight as the overlap. It's a very similar scenario to that shown on P86?
Pete
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:33 am
by lawrenceg
THe front cavalry base in contact with the rear LH base is NOT in overlap, which leads me to question the legality of this move.
In the errata for P75 we have
P.75 MOVING INTO CONTACT WITH ENEMY BATTLE GROUPS.
The first sentence currently reads “Battle groups can only move into contact with enemy battle
groups in the manoeuvre phase, but only to join an existing melee in an overlap position.”
It should read: “Battle groups can move into contact with enemy battle groups in the manoeuvre
phase, but only to join an existing melee in an overlap position only.”
Does the non-overlapping base violate the "in an overlap position only" requirement for joining the melee?
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:04 pm
by DaiSho
lawrenceg wrote:THe front cavalry base in contact with the rear LH base is NOT in overlap, which leads me to question the legality of this move.
It is in a position to fight in overlap. At least I'm pretty sure it is. I don't have my rules here, but you don't have to be in front edge contact with the enemy to count as overlap.
lawrenceg wrote:
In the errata for P75 we have
P.75 MOVING INTO CONTACT WITH ENEMY BATTLE GROUPS.
The first sentence currently reads “Battle groups can only move into contact with enemy battle
groups in the manoeuvre phase, but only to join an existing melee in an overlap position.”
It should read: “Battle groups can move into contact with enemy battle groups in the manoeuvre
phase, but only to join an existing melee in an overlap position only.”
Does the non-overlapping base violate the "in an overlap position only" requirement for joining the melee?
No way! Otherwise you'd NEVER get into an overlap position because there would ALWAYS be a base that can't fight in overlap unless it was elephants that happened to have enemy to overlap on both sides.
The friendly cavalry battle GROUP has moved into a position to give overlap support to the light foot - so they have complied with that portion of the rules.
I'd have to look at the interpenetration rules to make sure their move was legal, but assuming it was then the cavalry fight as the overlap and the light infantry don't.
Ian
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:14 pm
by lawrenceg
DaiSho wrote:lawrenceg wrote:THe front cavalry base in contact with the rear LH base is NOT in overlap, which leads me to question the legality of this move.
It is in a position to fight in overlap. At least I'm pretty sure it is. I don't have my rules here, but you don't have to be in front edge contact with the enemy to count as overlap.
lawrenceg wrote:
In the errata for P75 we have
P.75 MOVING INTO CONTACT WITH ENEMY BATTLE GROUPS.
The first sentence currently reads “Battle groups can only move into contact with enemy battle
groups in the manoeuvre phase, but only to join an existing melee in an overlap position.”
It should read: “Battle groups can move into contact with enemy battle groups in the manoeuvre
phase, but only to join an existing melee in an overlap position only.”
Does the non-overlapping base violate the "in an overlap position only" requirement for joining the melee?
No way! Otherwise you'd NEVER get into an overlap position because there would ALWAYS be a base that can't fight in overlap unless it was elephants that happened to have enemy to overlap on both sides.
The friendly cavalry battle GROUP has moved into a position to give overlap support to the light foot - so they have complied with that portion of the rules.
I'd have to look at the interpenetration rules to make sure their move was legal, but assuming it was then the cavalry fight as the overlap and the light infantry don't.
Ian
You can move into overlap only, but you can't move into contact if any base joins a melee in a non-overlap position. I agree that bases that don't join a melee becasue they are not in contact don't stop the move.
In this case the position of the front cavalry, in contact with the rear LH, is NOT an overlap position (as defined on p75 of the rules).
Although in contact, this base is not eligible to fight, so I think it probably is allowed, but I'm not 100% certain.
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:19 pm
by DaiSho
lawrenceg wrote:
You can move into overlap only, but you can't move into contact if any base joins a melee in a non-overlap position. I agree that bases that don't join a melee becasue they are not in contact don't stop the move.
In this case the position of the front cavalry, in contact with the rear LH, is NOT an overlap position (as defined on p75 of the rules).
Although in contact, this base is not eligible to fight, so I think it probably is allowed, but I'm not 100% certain.
Oh, I see what you're saying, the front rank cavalry who's front edge is 20mm past the rear edge of the enemy light foot isn't in position to overlap. I'd have to read the fine print on this one, and I have no rules nearby, but I thought that you still count as an overlap even if you've only got 1mm of edge touching, so long as you don't have anyone at your front
Ian
Re: Who fights in overlap
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:31 pm
by lawrenceg
is an overlapped LH
is an overlapping Cavalry and gets a dice.
is not in edge contact with
(not even 1 mm), is in edge contact with a
but is not in overlap, and does not get any dice.
Re: Who fights in overlap
Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:41 pm
by DaiSho
lawrenceg wrote:
is an overlapped LH
is an overlapping Cavalry and gets a dice.
is not in edge contact with
(not even 1 mm), is in edge contact with a
but is not in overlap, and does not get any dice.
Yeah, I forgot the
where LH, I thought they were LF hense the 1mm comment. The front rank guy IS in edge contact, but I'm not sure, as you say, if it's legal. One for the books
Ian
