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Best garrison troops?
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:30 pm
by Bombax
Hi folks,
Any ideas about which troops are best as garrison troops? Is it better to use cheap, light infantry rather than more expensive units?
TIA,
Jay.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:12 pm
by Schweetness101
medium infantry and skirmishers. There is a siege trait that helps in siege battles that you can see on the unit card (typically med inf and legions but some others) that I think helps in defending and attacking cities.
I don't know if there are more or less benefits to quelling unrest for certain unit types.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:21 pm
by loki100
I use 3 different 'garrison' builds.
If its purely as a police force - internal region, suppress unrest, then purely skirmishers. I think its unit number that remove revolt risk so this is cheap and effective.
If I think it could be attacked - coastal region or whatever, I'll put in 5+ mediums just to boost the defensive strength.
If its a border fortress that is likely to be attacked, say 4 HI, 6 MI and 10-15 skirmishers. If assaulted this can actually fight.
archers are good but too expensive (regional units) to use on permanent garrisons.
One of the beta players used light cavalry a lot for this but I'm not sure. I think that was before skirmishers got a defensive siege bonus and in any case they cost more than light infantry.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:33 pm
by avgard
My garrison at Syracusae was strong. HI, skirmishers, ect. Rome still battered them down and took the city. It took a while. So, it depends on who you are against.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:47 pm
by Soar
I think the medium infantry siege bonus might be only for offense, not for defense. Out of the universally available frontline units, only Heavy Infantry is better at defending against assaults than Urban Militia and even then, only slightly, so unless there's not enough Urban Militia around, or you're one of the few factions that has convenient access non-Phalanx infantry with 5+ defense or have upgraded to imitation legionnaires, adding frontline units to garrisons is only useful for field battles aside from absorbing attrition. It can also bump Urban Militia from the front row, where they're actually one of the stronger units in assault defense, to the support row where they take spots from far superior support units, so it often actively undermines the assault defense capabilities of the garrison. Medium infantry is actually worse than Urban Militia against assaults and bumps them out of the front row, so should be avoided for garrisons if assaults are a concern.
Archers and skirmishers have a bigger support bonus over the Urban Militia and get a bonus to siege defense rolls as well, but unfortunately they do get bumped out of the support row by Urban Militia, which limits their usefulness a lot. This all makes garrisons kind of bad, though they do at least defend against rebellions since patch 1.03 instead of joining them.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:19 pm
by Bombax
Soar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:47 pm
I think the medium infantry siege bonus might be only for offense, not for defense. Out of the universally available frontline units, only Heavy Infantry is better at defending against assaults than Urban Militia and even then, only slightly, so unless there's not enough Urban Militia around, or you're one of the few factions that has convenient access non-Phalanx infantry with 5+ defense or have upgraded to imitation legionnaires, adding frontline units to garrisons is only useful for field battles aside from absorbing attrition. It can also bump Urban Militia from the front row, where they're actually one of the stronger units in assault defense, to the support row where they take spots from far superior support units, so it often actively undermines the assault defense capabilities of the garrison. Medium infantry is actually worse than Urban Militia against assaults and bumps them out of the front row, so should be avoided for garrisons if assaults are a concern.
Archers and skirmishers have a bigger support bonus over the Urban Militia and get a bonus to siege defense rolls as well, but unfortunately they do get bumped out of the support row by Urban Militia, which limits their usefulness a lot. This all makes garrisons kind of bad, though they do at least defend against rebellions since patch 1.03 instead of joining them.
Interesting...
So it may be best, if you can afford the luxury, to have a nearby field army or two on hand, rather than scatter units as garrisons? This is something I've really not got my head around, so all the above comments are greatly appreciated - much food for thought...
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:45 am
by vakarr
If you are being raided, cavalry and light horse seem to be best at preventing raids. It doesn't seem to matter how big the defending force, eventually a "huge raid" will occur and the enemy will succeed (even if you have a palisade - need better fortifications as well). However having cavalry of some sort seems to help. Doesn't matter if they are inside or outside the town, though it is slightly better to have them outside when a raid comes. I'm referring to AI raids. To be raided, there has to be a visible army on the enemy/neutral side of the border but I've seen very small armies succeed against vast odds. If you are in danger of rebellions, keep the army outside if you want to fight or inside if you want to be able to hold on until the field army arrives.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:43 am
by Bombax
vakarr wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:45 am
If you are being raided, cavalry and light horse seem to be best at preventing raids. It doesn't seem to matter how big the defending force, eventually a "huge raid" will occur and the enemy will succeed (even if you have a palisade - need better fortifications as well). However having cavalry of some sort seems to help. Doesn't matter if they are inside or outside the town, though it is slightly better to have them outside when a raid comes. I'm referring to AI raids. To be raided, there has to be a visible army on the enemy/neutral side of the border but I've seen very small armies succeed against vast odds. If you are in danger of rebellions, keep the army outside if you want to fight or inside if you want to be able to hold on until the field army arrives.
Cheers Vakarr, I'll give that a try. It's almost entirely raids that I'm facing rather than a 'serious' opponent.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:08 am
by Pocus
Urban Militia are being looked at for the next patch.
Raids are defeated using the sum of defending units combat power (so -- for now -- no unit has a bonus compared to another with same CP) with region defensiveness as a (big) bonus. So adding walls and automated garrisons helps a lot (and cost nothing in upkeep)
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:39 pm
by Bombax
Pocus wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:08 am
Urban Militia are being looked at for the next patch.
Raids are defeated using the sum of defending units combat power (so -- for now -- no unit has a bonus compared to another with same CP) with region defensiveness as a (big) bonus. So adding walls and automated garrisons helps a lot (and cost nothing in upkeep)
Thanks for that info
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:56 am
by 13obo
Soar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:47 pm
I think the medium infantry siege bonus might be only for offense, not for defense.
I think that's incorrect. From the manual:
For the defender, the siege value is calculated in the same way and then the siege resist value of any buildings is added. Note that all skirmishers will provide a +1 siege resist as will Spartan units, Imperial Roman Auxilia and Legions
in addition to any units with the siege trait.
Re: Best garrison troops?
Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:19 pm
by Soar
I've now verified that unit Siege Value (what medium infantry have) does not contribute to defenders' siege rolls. In one of my savegames, Massilia is besieged and the defenders include 2 Palace Guards and 6 Skirmishers with Siege Resist values. There are also 5 Regular Infantry with a Siege Value, but the defending units' total contribution to the defense roll is only 8.