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Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:05 am
by Loffas
Smaller nations will age down towards the lowest bottom despite what you do.
If you overreach, HCV vs decadence that creates aging tokens i get. It is a good feature for many reasons. A bit too harsh maybe but okey.
The Legacy side of it on other hand is way too harsh for small nations.

Because they are small compared with other nations they get a aging token, basically every turn. To stop this they need legacy points.
If they manage to take over some distant locations, that will generate legacy points, that will also give them a lot of decadence. More then they can counter. It can not be stopped. Try to start with gothones for instance. They will only have civil war after civil war. Stop them to getting to the lowest form of civilization is impossible. I am on my 5th or 6th go with them. fingers crossed, this time i might make it ;)

So the result is that nations that are small at the start will crumble up and die. Whilst a big nation will only have problems to grow even bigger too fast.

Ideas:
One thing to fix this could be to take away the ranking system of the whole thing. Make it based on "missions" that varies from nation to nation. (Like the missions now). The effect will be that there perhaps could be at least a few stable small nations atleast.

An other way could be to keep the system as it is, but drastically decrease the effect from the rank of your nation. Not making the small size of your nation give a aging every 2-3 turns but every 10 maybe or 20. If you have it like that, a small nation could perhaps counter that effect of it small size by having a highly cultured society. Just in the same way that you counter having a larger nation with culture.

I am sure there are other ideas out there. I mainly wanted to get the ball rolling :)

By the way, Great game guys!! :)

Best regards
Loffas

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:11 am
by Ragu777
but when you small, you have less decadence from size than big nations

most top AI nation in CDR is OPMs

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:17 am
by Loffas
Yeah, i have just realized that you will get 1 or 2 tokens because you are small,,, but then if you keep the decadence in check and grow really slow it will not go down that fast. I had built a couple of slave markets last game, now, when i didn´t it goes better.

So it is a little bit like what i thought it should be. Legacy does matter, but not so much. Decadence matter WAY more.
And usury and slaves should effect the decay of a civ.

This is a really good game :)

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:20 am
by Ragu777
you need culture to fight decadence, not legacy

legacy is sort of winnig score

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:04 am
by Loffas
I know. But you get aging tokens if you are in lower part of all nations in legacy score(Scoreboard). If you play with a smaller nation you will know what i meant.

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:09 am
by Ragu777
Loffas wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:04 am I know. But you get aging tokens if you are in lower part of all nations in legacy score(Scoreboard). If you play with a smaller nation you will know what i meant.
not, you get them if you in lower third of CDR (culture-decadence-ratio), and gain progress tokens if you in top third

legacy can help - if you in top 10% of legacy ranking you have less chance to gain aging token (but still gain them)

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:26 am
by Loffas
Okey. So because I played with a nation that started in the lower third CDR that i got a token. Got it :)

Why i thought it was legacy in the first place was because of a pop-up turn 2 about the aging tier, a text on the nation overview that said i was falling behind in legacy and the fact that i got a mission to conquer a place for legacy point. I thought they were connected. Two of them were,, not the aging token though.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:29 am
by Loffas
About something completely different. If a building have upkeep. for example 1 in infrastructure.

And you choose not to produce infrastructure. Does something happen to the building when the infrastructure stockpile reaches/goes below zero?

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:52 am
by loki100
Loffas wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:29 am About something completely different. If a building have upkeep. for example 1 in infrastructure.

And you choose not to produce infrastructure. Does something happen to the building when the infrastructure stockpile reaches/goes below zero?
yes

..

it might fall down, so you lose a building. If a world/national wonder is chosen then you lose legacy instead - 6.2.13 of the manual

Re: Aging tokens without mercy for smaller nations. Discussion

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:58 am
by Loffas
Okey. Thanks