Slitherine

All,
Here is the link to my new Single-Player Scenario -- Operation Dragoon -- encompassing the invasion of southern France by VI Corps and the First French Army. It has not been forensicated by Bru - he is hereby invited/requested to do so. You can play it if you want to before he gets done, though. I'll updated this post when he gets done and when the Single Player Scenario folder is unlocked I'll move the link to that folder.

31 July Update: Please see formal announcement page.

thanks,
hope you enjoy this one.

conboy

conboy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:13 pm All,
It has not been forensicated by Bru - he is hereby invited/requested to do so.

Conboy, I received your invitation by PM. Thanks for your confidence in me. I just started doing something for Erik, also by invitation, but as soon as I am done with that, I will harpoon the Dragoon!

Let's start right here, however: "forensicate" ain't in the dictionary! It sounds like something I could be arrested for, though.

A few comments based on a quick play-through.

Fast and fun scenario.
Anzio blurb repeated in briefing.
Lots of on-map guidance to strategy. Maybe leave this to the player or move it to the briefing?
Or use US army/red team factions to better seperate the various formations and their objectives?
Add inf/tank landing craft specs.
The resource income is very generous. I usually had 500+ French and US resources each turn.
There is a lot of fields terrain. Maybe replace some with open (and some decorations) to avoid the sameness.
A number of the primary objectives are not garrisoned. It becomes a race to just grab them. Maybe add a few low-quality German units and extend the turn numbers a bit. Let the Allies fight for their objectives. It is a bit strange to ge the 'flee' message when there's been little fighting on the way to Grenoble.
One AB unit start at strength = 5. Since it can start repairing the turn it lands you might as well start at full strength.
Maybe leave shore bombardment until Toulon is captured?
Make sure the headlines fit the messages.
The French admin message was a bit of a surprise. losing all those nice Frenchies.
There are too many German trucks floating around. They just get in the way and clutter up the more interesting battles and it gets boring to chase them around.
The 2 factions are assigned to Team 1 and 2. You don't need this.
Maybe enable Phase II objectives after Phase I has been met?
You could easily add 3-4 exp to all units (except partisans). This may add some sizzle to battles.

Thank you Erik, for the review!

I'll get back to you with a more detailed response, but:

Or use US army/red team factions to better seperate the various formations and their objectives?

This is the second time I have heard of the red team factions, the other was in Mojko's Unit Navigator. What the heck is the red team faction and where do I get it? I don't have those starred factions on my factions list -- this one sure could use additional red-star and blue-star factions.
--------ps - OK, NOW I see how to do it! I didn't know you could add different-colored factions for the same nation. Eggz-zellend! This will help a lot in some other scenarios I'm working on -- different colors for each Division in a Corps -- what a useful tool! I should have known this because I used it in a couple of early versions of Anzio but I used it to differentiate between AI and Human factions.
--------pps - Also, Do you know how to get the starred units as in "The Fork" scenario?

Thanks for the Anzio catch and the RPs. And thanks again for the playthrough and inspection!

conboy

Check out the factions file in the main install etc data folder.
There are a few settings there that precludes certain factions from being available in the editor (and other stuff).
You want to remove the NOEDITOR tag from certain factions, like these:


[REDUSA]
id = 14
theme = usa
skirmish = free

[USARMY]
id = 17
theme = usa

Erik, thanks for your comments! I address them below.

Lots of on-map guidance to strategy. Maybe leave this to the player or move it to the briefing?

• Those are orders – not guidance. Players can ignore them at their peril.

Or use US army/red team factions to better seperate the various formations and their objectives?

• That is a dang good idea. Thanks for the suggestion – will implement after Bru zaps the scenario. It’ll come in handy in other scenarios too.

Add inf/tank landing craft specs.

• I don’t want to speed up the battle timeline. I already started it a day early and added some turns.

The resource income is very generous. I usually had 500+ French and US resources each turn.

• Copy dat – will fix.

There is a lot of fields terrain. Maybe replace some with open (and some decorations) to avoid the sameness.

• I'll put some in but I don’t like decorations. If we had some blown-up farms and wrecked vehicles, I’d use them. We need some windmills, chateaus, cow pastures, burned/burning factories, etc.

A number of the primary objectives are not garrisoned. It becomes a race to just grab them. Maybe add a few low-quality German units and extend the turn numbers a bit. Let the Allies fight for their objectives. It is a bit strange to ge the 'flee' message when there's been little fighting on the way to Grenoble.

• The Germans were completely shocked by the landing - all the good units were west of the Rhone and Corps headquarters got eat up by the paratroopers. Also, the speed of advance was astounding - 70,000 Germans were captured, many of them near the LZs. In fact, the invaders surpassed their own timelines about a month. Point is, not many Germans at all stood and fought except at the ports and at Montemilar. I was thinking about putting a pop-up in to give the player a heads-up on 16 August that the Germans had been ordered to disengage and move north as fast as possible. IRL, that’s what happened (Ultra intercept). Again, I want to keep the battle timeline as close to the real thing as possible. Most of the VI Corps battle was trying to catch up to the Germans (except Montemilar, when they did.)

One AB unit start at strength = 5. Since it can start repairing the turn it lands you might as well start at full strength.

• Ok.

Maybe leave shore bombardment until Toulon is captured?

• The French need to adhere to the battle timeline too. It was a hard slog for them clearing Marseille and Toulon. Every time I play it, they clear them too early anyway.

Make sure the headlines fit the messages.

• Fit the boxes? Ok, got it.

The French admin message was a bit of a surprise. losing all those nice Frenchies.

• IRL, they cleared the two towns on 29 August and then moved west across the Rhone, then north, almost without enemy contact. They didn’t help at Montemilar – that battle was over by the time Toulon and Marseille were cleared. Rather than have the player perform the tedious task of moving them without contact (like the 45th IRL), I gave the French the rest of the scenario off.

There are too many German trucks floating around. They just get in the way and clutter up the more interesting battles and it gets boring to chase them around.

• Butler/36th was trying to inflict as many casualties on fleeing units as possible, while at the same time attempting to keep their high-ground position from being overrun by the 11 pz and 198th inf. The whole thing at Montemilar was a 9-day mess, with German units crashing through the 36th roadblocks, convoys piling up, the 11 pz attacking when it could get to the 36th, and the 3rd trying to break through from the south up the highway, and TF BUtler shooting at the routed, fleeing Germans (the 36th and Butler expended 75,000 artillery rounds against the Germans on the highway!) I think I got it right except IRL the 11th pz attacked from the south, broke through and got away, and the 198th was eliminated as a combat unit, along with the rest of the 19th Army (except the 11th Pz). Also, IRL the 45th stopped at Grenoble, but I needed them to keep the 36th/Butler team from getting wiped out.

The 2 factions are assigned to Team 1 and 2. You don't need this.

• Ok I didn’t notice that but will fix.

Maybe enable Phase II objectives after Phase I has been met?

• That’s a good idea. I wish I didn’t have to put up the Capture Point markers until then. Truscott was very aggressive and changed the battle plan twice, so that might be a good thing to include, unless the enable might come too late to meet the victory trigger. Thanks!

You could easily add 3-4 exp to all units (except partisans). This may add some sizzle to battles.

• Noted.

Erik, Thanks again for the run-through! I’ll put these in when I hear back from Bru. I’ll keep the scenario up because I think it plays ok and 16 people have already downloaded.

conboy

conboy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:32 pmI’ll put these in when I hear back from Bru. I’ll keep the scenario up because I think it plays ok and 16 people have already downloaded.

conboy

Actually, conboy, why not go ahead and make those changes now? It will be a few more days at least before I can take a look at the scenario.

Actually, conboy, why not go ahead and make those changes now? It will be a few more days at least before I can take a look at the scenario.

Ok Bru, I'll work on it some tomorrow and then post for you on Saturday -- I'll send you the link and after I get your changes I'll update the one for all the interested players.

Everybody, please let me know what you think of the current version and I'll get your comments incorporated in the final along with Erik and Bru's comments.

thanks,
conboy

ps -- I'd really love to see a replay!

Faction supply ship with division markings. Easier to keep the faction units together and looks better with the div concept. Only cosmetics though.
Para unit still at strength = 5
I would still add the specs to allow the US inf and tanks to use proper landing crafts (not standard ship transports). This is historically correct and looks sexier.
The air specs scrambling, pilot rotation and drop tank should be activated. The map is large and the air units spend much time just moving between areas.
The German trucks are still only in the way, I don't get why they are in since there are a lot of regular German units in the area. you can't ignore the combat units and go chasing trucks. I would have removed the trucks and lowered teh 'inflict 55 casualties...' And the French partisans in the arfea does not make any difference against the trucks, so could be left out as well.
Message title 'French Troops Administration' doesn't fit.
The Phase I obj was fulfilled and got the green check-mark.
But on turn-13 it changed to failed...?
Phase II obj did not check when fulfilled at turn-12.
So in the end I only got a draw. Should have been a MV if I've understand the conditions correctly.
Added replay.

Erik,
Thanks so very much for the replay! It's an eye-opener to see someone else's play style on one's work. It's the first for me so thanks again.

I will stop being obstinate and incorporate your changes. Except for the Butler battle -- if you set up on the hill, the trucks come to you. That was the whole point of the historical battle, as I attempted to convey in a previous post.

Bru, good sir, please hold off on this until I get the rest of Erik's recommended changes in. I need to fix an issue in the northeast section, too.

Once again, I am baffled by how to set up the victory conditions! No matter how many --- whichever I --- whine! --- gripe! --- squawk!! --- dammit!!!

As I said, I will fix this and send you and Bru the updated files and a replay.

thanks again,

conboy

Bru,
Here is the updated version -- Operation Dragoon v1.0. I got all of Erik's comments in and fixed some things like victory conditions, etc.
When you are done with it, I'll update the file with your comments and then the link on the announcement.

If anybody else wants to play it, I think it plays well now. You need to keep your divisional units cohesive and follow the road/route markers and keep to the timelines.

-Added landing craft for all factions
-Starred the units so you can tell them apart without reading the unit names, along with their supply ships (great suggestion, Erik!)
-Fixed the victory conditions
-Got Erik's previous comments incorporated

Bru, thanks in advance for your time and expertise.

Hi Conboy,

Top Tip, put a version number in your file name for your scenario!

At the moment, I don't know whether to download the scenario from your first post here, or to wait until you release the updated version that you're working on?

Ta!

Shards,

Top Tip, put a version number in your file name for your scenario!



The lesson herein is two-fold:
1) Don't name a file v1.x until Bru scans it (I would pull it down but some people have downloaded it. The version that incorporates his comments will be v1.1)
2) Don't discuss the same scenario in two different threads (I guess it's three now counting the preliminary announcement on von Paulus' page)

I should know better by now!

thanks for your interest, I hope you enjoy it.
tot straaks!

conboy

PS (edit): Bru will find some things that need to be fixed, but I have incorporated Erik's comments and done a playthrough since, and it plays fine, if you or anyone else wants to give it a spin. It's about 2.5 hours play time.

My quick input, up to Turn 14, and it's a fun manoeuvre and kerb-stomp scenario!

- I'm not sure where the 7TP jw appeared from on my Eastern Flank. It's taken back the far SE Primary, but isn't getting any supply from it, so I've been able to run a tank back there to slowly whittle it down whilst the Puma's skate around.
- I'd consider whether to replace one or more of the Pumas with a non-recon unit, so that it *can* take back the VP. Or possibly give the Pumas more of a seek and destroy mission so that they're not sat on VP's doing nothing
- In general, I'd always put a flag on any supply point. Not every player knows to press Space to see the supply outputs
- Just north of that SE Primary point is a supply point to an off-map supply. I'd consider putting a flag there and maybe an AI exit point? To indicate that it's an off-map supply source (and so the player knows to take it!)
- There's a few supply points that are off their flags (e.g. Avignon, Aix)
- Reiz is a town in the south centre that gives supply, but has no flag, and isn't on a road (so I've bypassed it, but have therefore left a supply pocket)
- There's a section of Chinese wall West of Aix?
- The Clear Toulon and Marseille of all germans shows 0/0 but hasn't Ticked. There' still 5 units in and around Marseille... Maybe an issue with the counter?
- Are there actually any straggler units that I might encounter when pushing North and West? A message indicated they might be there, but it's mostly just open countryside!!
- There's no deployment hex for Air units, so I can't bring back the Lightning that I recovered via the bottom air unit exit hexes.
- I don't love Task Force Buttler magically appearing when you take the VP, it feels a bit magic wand when you compare to the realism of the rest of the scenario?
- You unsummon the french forces when the Germans are defeated in the south, but if a unit in Marseille is the last unit, then I'm left with nothing to take that VP! Maybe test that both of the VP's are taken AND that the forces are beaten?

Amidst all of this though, is a good fun scenario, that's got a good amount of action and I really like the briefing style and marking the objectives with the names of the units that you should be using to take these (according to HQ's plan)!

My quick input, up to Turn 14, and it's a fun manoeuvre and kerb-stomp scenario

- I'm not sure where the 7TP jw appeared from on my Eastern Flank. It's taken back the far SE Primary, but isn't getting any supply from it, so I've been able to run a tank back there to slowly whittle it down whilst the Puma's skate around.
*conboy - It came from Italy – it was in the brief to watch out for that. 1SSF should be holding that position. I wish the player could keep the briefings handy during the scenario play!

- I'd consider whether to replace one or more of the Pumas with a non-recon unit, so that it *can* take back the VP. Or possibly give the Pumas more of a seek and destroy mission so that they're not sat on VP's doing nothing
*conboy – good point – but there are some lethal bad guys up there.

- In general, I'd always put a flag on any supply point. Not every player knows to press Space to see the supply outputs
*conboy – thank you for the suggestion, wilco

- Just north of that SE Primary point is a supply point to an off-map supply. I'd consider putting a flag there and maybe an AI exit point? To indicate that it's an off-map supply source (and so the player knows to take it!)
*conboy – Understand the flag but not the AI exit point. The player doesn’t have to take it – just defend the primary hex.

- There's a few supply points that are off their flags (e.g. Avignon, Aix)
*conboy – ah! Thanks!

- Reiz is a town in the south centre that gives supply, but has no flag, and isn't on a road (so I've bypassed it, but have therefore left a supply pocket)
*conboy – will fix

- There's a section of Chinese wall West of Aix?
*conboy – will fix

- The Clear Toulon and Marseille of all germans shows 0/0 but hasn't Ticked. There' still 5 units in and around Marseille... Maybe an issue with the counter?
*conboy – what a mess! I tested it and it worked so back to the drawing board.

- Are there actually any straggler units that I might encounter when pushing North and West? A message indicated they might be there, but it's mostly just open countryside!!
*conboy – sometimes they get away from Marseille

- There's no deployment hex for Air units, so I can't bring back the Lightning that I recovered via the bottom air unit exit hexes.
*conboy – sir, you have a construction battalion to address the issue of air support but I thought those were redeployment hexes! My bad, will fix.

- I don't love Task Force Butler magically appearing when you take the VP, it feels a bit magic wand when you compare to the realism of the rest of the scenario?
*conboy – a conceit, if you will, to address a dilemma. TF Butler comprised armor, infantry, recon, and artillery. I thought there were too many units to move around as it was. I’m not crazy about it either but the alternative is to have 3 more units to move contiguously or have TF Butler wiped out as soon as it achieves its objective…

- You unsummon the french forces when the Germans are defeated in the south, but if a unit in Marseille is the last unit, then I'm left with nothing to take that VP! Maybe test that both of the VP's are taken AND that the forces are beaten?
*conboy – They are not supposed to depart until both Primary VPs are taken! Grrrrr. Will check and fix!

Amidst all of this though, is a good fun scenario, that's got a good amount of action and I really like the briefing style and marking the objectives with the names of the units that you should be using to take these (according to HQ's plan)!
*conboy – Shards, Thank you very much for the review! I’m happy that you played and enjoyed it. I’ll fix those bugaboos.

Bru - Please old off, I'll update and send another.

For this:

- I'm not sure where the 7TP jw appeared from on my Eastern Flank. It's taken back the far SE Primary, but isn't getting any supply from it, so I've been able to run a tank back there to slowly whittle it down whilst the Puma's skate around.
*conboy - It came from Italy – it was in the brief to watch out for that. 1SSF should be holding that position.

I'd consider a quick alert message to warn the player that there's new trouble on the scene and consider updating the last primary objective to HOLD all Primary VPs (tbh, it might do that already... )

When I approach a Conboy scenario, I have this mental image of rolling up my sleeves, spitting on my palms, and clapping my hands together before diving into the particulars!

Let's start with these triggers; for each set of them, I would use Turn Start as the trigger event:


For the first two, the reasoning is this: Although these would work, the nuance is that you are waiting until the first move event in Turn 9 to evaluate the trigger. If you want to be a perfectionist (and your work certainly is deserving of that aspiration), then the trigger should evaluate at the very beginning of Turn 9 and not one move into it. For the third trigger, that definitely should be Turn Start because once the scenario has ended, there will be no more Move Events.

Now, with these triggers, the thinking is a bit different. You have two of them set for Turn Start and one for Move Event. I think all three of them should be Capture VP Event:


Here is my reasoning: Sometime before turns 9, 13, and 21 (scenario end), the Allies must own all of these hexes. By setting the triggers for Turn Start, you are actually requiring the Allies to have them at the start of turns 8 and 12, thereby depriving the player of the final turn in which to accomplish these objectives. Setting the last trigger to Move Event works, theoretically, as long as the last VP is not captured on the very last move? I'm not sure.

I am sure about this: Instead, if you have all of these set for Capture VP Event, then they will be activated (given the conditions being fulfilled) during turns 8, 12, and 20 if those turns are needed. This way, they will be activated precisely when the objectives are accomplished.

With this one, again, I would use Capture VP Event and also take out the Check Turn condition. This trigger should activate as soon as the fourth secondary VP is taken, regardless of turn:


In the mission description, you should link the objective to those four hexes so that the player knows where they are; I found them by clicking the Target Hexes in the conditions:


Hmmm. I have cautioned Erik about "bait and switch" tactics; i.e., making reward promises that he does not keep. Here, this is the ultimate bait and switch! Ahhh, if only it could be . . .


But it is a cute idea. May I suggest including a popup message with that trigger, with this lovely image of Ms. Grable?


Hmmm, again. The problem is, the optimal image size is 512 x 415 pixels and this picture is tall. You can't cut off her head and you certainly cannot leave out any portion of the legs. Maybe I'll work on it later.

Thread to be continued . . .

The correct answer is to widen the image with additional background!