Slitherine

Just playing through as Sparta and I only have as infantry: Spartan Hoplites and Spartan Phalanxs. I was wondering if Sparta eventually gets non-provincial units in these roles or if that is it?

I guess it makes sense to have some limit on a nation like Sparta so I wouldn't criticise it but it does form a hard limit to expansion if thats the case since you wouldn't have enough armies to defend a large empire.

benzidrine wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:33 am Just playing through as Sparta and I only have as infantry: Spartan Hoplites and Spartan Phalanxs. I was wondering if Sparta eventually gets non-provincial units in these roles or if that is it?

I guess it makes sense to have some limit on a nation like Sparta so I wouldn't criticise it but it does form a hard limit to expansion if thats the case since you wouldn't have enough armies to defend a large empire.

Rome has the same issue. Italian Foot are of course provincial but Legions and Alae also have scaling recruitment costs. Though of course once you have them the upkeep is static.

No Sparta for now has no special reforms that would provide extra units, might be cool to manage to reform Sparta one day.

Note that the 3 kind of legions don't have the same 'cost increase'. You can field more Imperial legions e.g.

Thanks for answering, I appreciate it.

From a game perspective it'd be fun to reform them even if it was very difficult but I do like their uniqueness as they are. The way they are currently does make sense.

Pocus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:14 pm No Sparta for now has no special reforms that would provide extra units, might be cool to manage to reform Sparta one day.

Note that the 3 kind of legions don't have the same 'cost increase'. You can field more Imperial legions e.g.

Never got far enough in the game to reach reforms I don't think. What turns are those on?

oliganthropie
Oliganthropy refers to the extreme population decline of a human population, threatening the latter with extinction.

SPARTA
one of the major problems of late Spartan society was the steady decline of fully emancipated citizens, which also meant a decline in available military personnel: the number of Spartans decreased from 6,000 to 640 BC. 1000 BC to 330 BC AD

Therefore Sometimes the hilots themselves fought as hopsites
Another such call came during the invasion of Laconia in one of the decisive battles of Peloponnese wars. Xenophon in Hellenica (VI, 5, 28) states that the authorities agreed to emancipate all the helots who volunteered. He then reports that more than 6,000 heeded the call, leading to some embarrassment for the Spartans, who have been overwhelmed by the number.

It was also possible to buy freedom for example in 223 BC, 6,000 helots bought their freedom for 500 drachmas each, a considerable sum at the time.
(but they never acquired full citizenship)

Generally, emancipated helots were referred to as "neodamodes" or Hoplites citizens
Therefore you could perhaps allow their creation ?

This will give:

Spartan Hoplites = Full-fledged citizens, known as Spartans or Hómoioi ("Similar"), who received a land grant ("Kleros") in exchange for their military service ((20-60 years)

Spartan Phalanxs = Free non-citizens, known as the Périques, usually traders, and artisans.

Neodamodes = Free helots enlisted during hostilities but as a "light" hoplites unlike their brothers slaves who were used from the 5th century BC as light troops during the skirmishes