Slitherine

It seems i was wrong on understanding how the terrain edge works.
I've tried to charge an Arab spear unit on deep stream into Byzantine spearmen, I saw the detail info shew that my spearmen was disordered, but theirs not.

From my current observation, I think it works like below:
If cohort R is in rough terrain and cohort O is in open terrain, both heavy foots,
when R charges / attacks O, R gets disordered, but O doesn't
while when O charges / attacks R, both O and R get disordered.

So, for a medium foot cohort, putting the enemy on rough terrain can gain more advantage than standing on it.

Am I right?

Blastom1016 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:38 am It seems i was wrong on understanding how the terrain edge works.
I've tried to charge an Arab spear unit on deep stream into Byzantine spearmen, I saw the detail info shew that my spearmen was disordered, but theirs not.

From my current observation, I think it works like below:
If cohort R is in rough terrain and cohort O is in open terrain, both heavy foots,
when R charges / attacks O, R gets disordered, but O doesn't
while when O charges / attacks R, both O and R get disordered.

Correct. See manual, section 17.4.

So, for a medium foot cohort, putting the enemy on rough terrain can gain more advantage than standing on it.

In so far as if they are on rough terrain you can safely attack them, but if you are on rough terrain you need to wait for them to attack you, then yes.

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:51 am

Blastom1016 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:38 am It seems i was wrong on understanding how the terrain edge works.
I've tried to charge an Arab spear unit on deep stream into Byzantine spearmen, I saw the detail info shew that my spearmen was disordered, but theirs not.

From my current observation, I think it works like below:
If cohort R is in rough terrain and cohort O is in open terrain, both heavy foots,
when R charges / attacks O, R gets disordered, but O doesn't
while when O charges / attacks R, both O and R get disordered.

Correct. See manual, section 17.4.

So, for a medium foot cohort, putting the enemy on rough terrain can gain more advantage than standing on it.

In so far as if they are on rough terrain you can safely attack them, but if you are on rough terrain you need to wait for them to attack you, then yes.

I've tested all the scenarios, it's not as what I thought.

During impact, if unit R in rough terrain charges unit O in open terrain, only R suffers from disordered penalty.
If unit O charges unit R, then both of them suffer.
During melee combat, both of them suffer.

So the best way to engage an enemy heavy foot with a heavy foot is to let the enemy stands on a rough terrain and charges - only the enemy suffers penalty on the first contact and then both the same.

But yup, you're right about the attack and defense.

Blastom1016 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:12 pmDuring impact, if unit R in rough terrain charges unit O in open terrain, only R suffers from disordered penalty.
If unit O charges unit R, then both of them suffer.
During melee combat, both of them suffer.

The last point is only true in the second case.

If unit R in rough terrain charges unit O in open terrain, only R suffers from disordered penalty - and this is also true in the subsequent melees. (Provided neither side pushes the other back). The program remembers who originally charged and applies that (to any rule where it matters) until the combat is finally resolved by one side routing or breaking off.

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:09 pm

Blastom1016 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:12 pmDuring impact, if unit R in rough terrain charges unit O in open terrain, only R suffers from disordered penalty.
If unit O charges unit R, then both of them suffer.
During melee combat, both of them suffer.

The last point is only true in the second case.

If unit R in rough terrain charges unit O in open terrain, only R suffers from disordered penalty - and this is also true in the subsequent melees. (Provided neither side pushes the other back). The program remembers who originally charged and applies that (to any rule where it matters) until the combat is finally resolved by one side routing or breaking off.



Heavy Infantry in rough terrain charging Heavy Infantry in open terrain.jpg

You're right. Probably my experiment has something wrong. Just tried to charged from rough terrain in multiplayer, the poor spearmen now tied in an unflavored battle.

Well, I see, it's all about who charges.
If a unit in rough terrain charges a unit Open, only the charger will suffer from rough terrain penalty in both impact and all following melee.
If a unit charges into rough terrain, both it and its target will suffer in impact and all following melee.

Blastom1016 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:31 pm Well, I see, it's all about who charges.
If a unit in rough terrain charges a unit Open, only the charger will suffer from rough terrain penalty in both impact and all following melee.
If a unit charges into rough terrain, both it and its target will suffer in impact and all following melee.

Basically whoever initiates the combat is moving into the area that the other unit is holding. If you attack from rocky terrain against someone who is in the open next to the rocky area, your formation will suffer and might still be partially on the rocks. If you attack from the open into rough terrain you'll have to break your formation. Defender can be presumed to be holding/utilizing the the most defensible locations available.

MVP7 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:30 pm

Blastom1016 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:31 pm Well, I see, it's all about who charges.
If a unit in rough terrain charges a unit Open, only the charger will suffer from rough terrain penalty in both impact and all following melee.
If a unit charges into rough terrain, both it and its target will suffer in impact and all following melee.

Basically whoever initiates the combat is moving into the area that the other unit is holding. If you attack from rocky terrain against someone who is in the open next to the rocky area, your formation will suffer and might still be partially on the rocks. If you attack from the open into rough terrain you'll have to break your formation. Defender can be presumed to be holding/utilizing the the most defensible locations available.

It’s logical. I’m thinking about how to exploit this, like holding behind a rough terrain with raw troops.

Adding some more details.
If a cohort pushes enemy cohort, then they will fight like the enemy charged the pusher - both suffers from the penalty.

This is logical as well, as the enemy is likely half in the original cell.