Slitherine

Why is it that superior medium infantry can beat practically any troop on the board? Jewish Zealots (who were basically armed with a dagger) rout pike blocks more effectively than any troop type. The Samites nearly always defeat Roman legionaries. Meanwhile the roman auxiliary who were better equipped and trained than either has a job winning against anything. There might be more examples, but this is rather silly. It is not as if they cost that much either.

Mostly because they are superior "impact foot", which usually gives them advantage at impact phase.

I charged them with four pike blocks on the flat both pike blocks took huge casualties and were disordered. However there is no indication that Jewish Zealots (did I mention they were armed with daggers) could take down pike blocks in seconds (which would take Roman legionaries all day). The Samites I sort of get (in that the romans were scared of them)... So I guess the problem is that the Zealots are countered as impact foot when they shouldn't be.

FWIW I'm not sure the Zealots would be actually armed with daggers. I assume most would pick up other weapons fairly quickly. I suspect the model gives them daggers to match the stereotype of the suicidally brave sicarius. I'd personally prefer a short spear or sword and small shield, or however the zealots would have armed themselves for battle, but it would make for a less distinctive model.

I presumed they represented the troops like would have been involved in the siege of Jerusalem. Largely composed of captured equipment, essentially armed and armoured like Romans, but, with the added bonus of being in a fight or die anyway situation - very highly motivated to not surrender.

In any case, Zealots don't perform better than legionaries against pikes in melee and have similar performance on impact. The pikes might have been disrupted due to terrain, which would not effect Zealots as they are medium foot, or it was a fluke which happens.

What gave you the idea that they are armed with daggers?

Nfarrell007 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:16 pm Why is it that superior medium infantry can beat practically any troop on the board? Jewish Zealots (who were basically armed with a dagger) rout pike blocks more effectively than any troop type. The Samites nearly always defeat Roman legionaries. Meanwhile the roman auxiliary who were better equipped and trained than either has a job winning against anything. There might be more examples, but this is rather silly. It is not as if they cost that much either.

This just isn't true though. Superior Medium Impact Foot will generally lose against Superior Heavy Impact Foot in the open, thanks to their lower cohesion rolls. They are rather vulnerable to Lancers, Elephants, and Heavy Chariots. The Veteran Samnites may generally get the better of Hastati/Principes, but not Veteran Hastati/Principes. Impact Foot will also have an easier time against Pikemen that have already suffered casualties, but a Pike unit at full strength will Impact at +200, just like Impact Foot, with quality being the difference.

There is no one best unit type. Some are more versatile, some more specialized. Some do well in in-timeline and geographical matchup contexts, but poorly when matched against anachronistic opponents. It really just depends. Also do note that the Zealots got a slight cost increase in the most recent patch.

Impact is +200 POA, Superior is +50, a general in the unit is +50.......it can really add up. Average pikes are just +200 POA if they're at 100% strength. Plus I believe they get a size bonus on impact? Anyway, the issue is that the Jewish list can afford to have 11 or so Zealots at 50 something points apiece vs. a pike army that rarely fields more than 8 total pikes that cost 72 or more points apiece.

Zealots are very cost effective charging troops. In prolonged melee, though...........not the best. And they're easy to shoot up since they have low armor. Massed archers can do a number on them, while horse archers can pick them apart. Provided you can get past the massive archer screen they come with.

And they can get stalled out by just a few units of Lancers. Some Lancers to slow their advance, missiles to take advantage of their Lightly Protected armor, and infantry to finish the job. It's certainly a tough army, but combined with its total lack of cavalry, it's hardly unbeatable.

Agree Jewish Zealot army being hardly unbeatable.

BTW, why Zealots get lightly protected. They don't even have shields but plain cloth on them like light javelin or light horse archers. Unprotected is more correct.

melm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:51 amBTW, why Zealots get lightly protected. They don't even have shields but plain cloth on them like light javelin or light horse archers. Unprotected is more correct.

As has been mentioned above, the model used is for flavour. In reality they would acquire some actual equipment.

It is best not to take the appearance of units in the game too literally. Their classification for protection, capabilities etc. is their true representation, not the models.

melm wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:51 am Agree Jewish Zealot army being hardly unbeatable.

BTW, why Zealots get lightly protected. They don't even have shields but plain cloth on them like light javelin or light horse archers. Unprotected is more correct.

For some reason, someone zealous enough can keep on fighting after taking beats - just like taking beats in armor.