Slitherine

Although mines have sight range 0, faction-owned mines can reveal concealed enemy units if they move adjacent to them.

This has probably low priority as the game usually has mines as neutral units to avoid that players or AI can run "through" hexes if mined (by an "owned" mine). There might be few exceptions...

Horst wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:05 pm Although mines have sight range 0, faction-owned mines can reveal concealed enemy units if they move adjacent to them.
Bug-TheSeeingMines.7z
Bug-TheSeeingMines.jpg

If I am not mistaken a unit always sees adjacent units (if they are not hidden before moving).
A neutral mine should see what’s going on around it but we’ll never know

Too bad "low priority" means "no priority", but the number of faction mines used in official scenarios has somewhat increased over the years.
I'm pretty sure my units got showered by artillery fire once or twice thanks to spying mines.
At least camouflaged units still can't be detected (if you ignore the cheating Seek & Destroy and other AI task behavior of course )

Horst wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:44 pm I'm pretty sure my units got showered by artillery fire once or twice thanks to spying mines.

Thank you, at least I'm not alone thinking that.
Okay, so, in summary, "faction-mines" prevent flanking, prevent upgrading and enable spying? Nice...

That's at least upgrading and flanking for faction-mines fixed.
Spying is still elusive.

Horst wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:00 pm That's at least upgrading and flanking for faction-mines fixed.
Spying is still elusive.


Mines-Upgrade&Flanking-Fix.gif

So, in your Fixes and Tweaks Mod, you say:
fixed: faction mines won't prevent flanking anymore
fixed: faction mines won't prevent upgrading anymore

I get the first one from reading this thread (by the way, custom scenarios use faction mines a great deal, for the reason
bebro gave but in reverse; I, for one feel that a faction should know its way through its own minefields).

But I don't get the second ... except, are you saying that your fix stopped a situation in which a faction mine prevented a unit of that faction from upgrading but this is now not the case? Whereas, nobody can still upgrade next to a neutral mine? Please explain.

The word "enemy" is missing in front of these sentences to make it clear.
Otherwise, enemy faction mines prevent upgrading units and also prevent flanking, like regular enemy units.

It's getting really a bit absurd now folks.

Why would enemy mines allow upgrading? Do military folks think "Hey, we just discovered this enemy minefield! This must be the safest place on Earth so let's start to re-equip here! The enemy surely would never visit a place again he found important enough to plop mines down there." Seriously?

Let's not even start debating how often you may want to upgrade next to such a minefield. While the game allows for it, wasting a turn on upgrades in the field as opposed to the deployment stage is usually a bad idea. Yes, there may be cases where some superduper equipment comes in, and you *absolutely* want it right now - but then how often does this come together with being next to an enemy mine?


Last but not least - if mines reveal or are "owned" for whatever reason in SP is, and will remain a design decision which is always highly situational, depending on what the goal is.

There is one clear exception - MP. There I'd agree with the "cheating/spying" argument, but in SP rather not.

bebro wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 2:29 pm It's getting really a bit absurd now folks.

Why would enemy mines allow upgrading? [...] Seriously?

My question would rather be: Why should enemy mines prevent upgrading? And prevent the "flanking" mechanic?

Before, sometimes it felt like a bug if I could not upgrade my tank to another model in the "middle of nowhere" - although there were no enemy units in sight.
You could even call this a game "exploit" if you want, because if it happens now, it's clear to me that whenever any of my units (without the ability to see camouflaged enemy units) can not upgrade in the field, the reason has to be an adjacent mine or lounge miner or commando unit...

I really don't understand: why the opposition? This is still a game, right? With basic mechanics. Usually units from the "structure" classes don't prevent healing/upgrading and don't have "areas of influence" in terms of movement and attack. Why not equalize the mines?

What do you mean by "opposition". Are you saying others have to see things as you do it?