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rear support
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:13 pm
by pyrrhus
I am sure this has been asked before but the search has failes me
1 Can sombody explain or show me the position of units that would be providing support because I get a different explaination each time I play (so the third bullet point needs a diagram)
2 can I use the second movement rule in terrain
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:04 pm
by hammy
A battle group can claim rear support if it has steady friendly non-skirmishers of equal or better quality to its rear, but only if all of the following apply:
The number of such bases at least partly directly to the battle group’s rear must be at least half the original total number of bases in the supported battle group.
The supporting bases must all be within 8 MUs of the rear of the battle group if they are foot, 12 MUs if they are mounted.
The supported battle group must be at least partly in front of a straight line extending the front edge of the supporting bases.
There are no enemy troops even partly between the battle group claiming rear support and the bases giving rear support.
The bases giving rear support are not part of a battle group that is in close combat.
The second bullet point says that the bases providing rear support must be direcly behind the BG they are providing support to. Take a line extending either side of the BG backwards and the supporting bases must be at least partially within the area defined
The third says that the BG being supported must be at least partly in front of a line extending the front edge of the supporting bases or in other words a BG at 90 degrees can still provide rear support. Actually depending on how close the BGs are it is possible to get rear support from a BG facing more than 90 degrees away from the BG that it is supporting.
I will see if I can find a diagram.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:14 pm
by Redpossum
Hammy, I'm sorry, no disrespect intended at all, but that second paragraph of yours makes no sense to me. Maybe you need to define "in front of" or draw us a picture, because you just lost me completely
When you say "at 90 degrees", you mean like the front BG being supported faces North, the supporting BG is South of it and facing East?
But if that's so, how can you say the BG being supported is "in front" of the supporting BG?
I know it's asking a lot, and you
do have a life outside of FoG, I'm sure...but could you maybe setup a couple BG's and take a pic for us, please?
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:25 pm
by philqw78
[/img]
The front BG is facing up the page the rear BG is facing right
The front BG does not have support on the left example but does on the right example
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:25 pm
by pyrrhus
yeah a picture would help greatly !!! to me "directly behined"is too interpretive
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:31 pm
by frederic
philqw78 wrote:[/img]
The front BG is facing up the page the rear BG is facing right
The front BG does not have support on the left example but does on the right example
I don't understand why the line is in the middle of the supporting group and not in the front ???
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:35 pm
by shall
A battle group can claim rear support if it has steady friendly non-skirmishers of equal or better quality to its rear, but only if all of the following apply:
The number of such bases at least partly directly to the battle group’s rear must be at least half the original total number of bases in the supported battle group. The supporting bases must all be within 8 MUs of the rear of the battle group if they are foot, 12 MUs if they are mounted.
The supported battle group must be at least partly in front of a straight line extending the front edge of the supporting bases. There are no enemy troops even partly between the battle group claiming rear support and the bases giving rear support.
The bases giving rear support are not part of a battle group that is in close combat.
Directly to battle groups rear = draw two lines along the
supported BGs edges going backwards. The area in between is directly to its rear.
Partly in front = draw a line extending the
supporting BGs front to both sides. Some part of the
supported BG must be forward of this line. So you cannot, say, be behind but facing backwards away from the supported BG.
The combination means you can be behind and angled away to some degree on the basis that supporting troops could manouvrfe somewhat to assist. Muck around a bit and it should make sense.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:51 pm
by grahambriggs
frederic wrote:philqw78 wrote:[/img]
The front BG is facing up the page the rear BG is facing right
The front BG does not have support on the left example but does on the right example
I don't understand why the line is in the middle of the supporting group and not in the front ???
Because only two bases are required to provide rear support to the front BG, and he's showing the extreme case. The two bases in the second rank provide the support. Had the front BG been eight bases, then the supporting BG would have to shift back a bit so that a line across the front of it would go through the other BG
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:39 pm
by petedalby
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:29 pm
by Redpossum
shall wrote:A battle group can claim rear support if it has steady friendly non-skirmishers of equal or better quality to its rear, but only if all of the following apply:
The number of such bases at least partly directly to the battle group’s rear must be at least half the original total number of bases in the supported battle group. The supporting bases must all be within 8 MUs of the rear of the battle group if they are foot, 12 MUs if they are mounted.
The supported battle group must be at least partly in front of a straight line extending the front edge of the supporting bases. There are no enemy troops even partly between the battle group claiming rear support and the bases giving rear support.
The bases giving rear support are not part of a battle group that is in close combat.
Directly to battle groups rear = draw two lines along the
supported BGs edges going backwards. The area in between is directly to its rear.
Partly in front = draw a line extending the
supporting BGs front to both sides. Some part of the
supported BG must be forward of this line. So you cannot, say, be behind but facing backwards away from the supported BG.
The combination means you can be behind and angled away to some degree on the basis that supporting troops could manouvrfe somewhat to assist. Muck around a bit and it should make sense.
OK, thanks, that works.
But note that by your definition, neither case in philqw's example diagram has rear support. You say a line parallel to the front edge of the BG, and philqw's diagram breaks it down to considering individual figures.
Which is it?
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:40 pm
by nikgaukroger
Phil's diagram is cock - look at the pictures in Pete's link and it shouold be self explanatory.
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:03 pm
by Redpossum
pete - Good link, thanks!
nik - Got it, right, thanks. This is an issue that's been bothering me for a while now
(cock??? poor philqw
)
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:11 pm
by philqw78
Phil's diagram is cock
????? Why??????? Rear support is defined by bases not BG
The supported battle group must be at least partly in front of a straight line extending the front edge of the supporting bases.
nik - Got it, right, thanks
But accdording to the above I did not get it wrong
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:34 pm
by nikgaukroger
Phil, I know but you hadn't really explained that it is bases and not BGs that matter when looking at the supporters
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:37 pm
by philqw78