Slitherine

Messing around in a lot of games, sometimes you figure out an interesting combination or tactic you didn't think of before. I'm interested to see what tricks long-time players have!

I'll share one of my own examples:

Recently I've started blocking fallback squares for my charging units in important attacks. This allows attacking units that would normally fall back after impact to stay in close combat. This way I can get light horse to charge and not bounce off.

This has a lot of uses. Maybe you have a unit in position for a flank charge but you want to engage the enemy first to enable a cohesion drop. Or even better forcing a face change, as an enemy unit in close combat against one other unit changes their facing in the next round. Essentially you have forced the enemy to turn in the direction you want!

I did find some use for this in the recent tournament, where my light javelin horse fought enemy heavy foot before it could flank my phalanx. It is a very situational thing of course, only really useful with superiority in light units and cavalry, but fun when you can pull it off.

That's the only trick I know.

Another infamous tactic used with cheap infantry is arranging a front diagonally so that the attacking enemy ends up pushing himself straight into flankable position. Never used it myself and its efficiency was reduced significantly by the 1.5.3 push-back changes since it now takes at least two losses before unit is pushed back diagonally.

It is often advantageous to charge an enemy unit that is already routed. Some possible reasons:

1) The routed unit may have been blocking you from doing something important, like charging another enemy unit in the flank.

2) Your charging unit may pursue and end up charging another enemy unit that was otherwise beyond normal charge distance.

3) Your unit may be surrounded by the enemy and in a very bad situation, by charging the routed unit they may be able to escape.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:58 pm It is often advantageous to charge an enemy unit that is already routed. Some possible reasons:

1) The routed unit may have been blocking you from doing something important, like charging another enemy unit in the flank.

2) Your charging unit may pursue and end up charging an another enemy unit that was otherwise beyond normal charge distance.

3) Your unit may be surrounded by the enemy and in a very bad situation, by charging the routed unit they may be able to escape.

This is also sometimes useful when your unit (typically cavalry) is pursuing routers. You can attack the routed unit with another unit to kind of "speed up" your original pursuers, for example to make place or to force them out of danger. It's not reliable of course and you can end up actually messing up more (with now 2 units in danger, showing flank or rear to enemy ).

Another reason to charge a routing unit is because it has suffered few casualties or is superior or has a general with it, and likely to rally. Only if it has auto-broken is it not worth charging a routing unit.

Good tips. Thanks.

Always try to get one or two Light Cavalry units behind the enemy army. Some possible reasons:

1) They can charge units that have rallied from routed. A LC unit has a good chance of routing any type of fragmented unit.

2) They can destroy the enemy's Heavy artillery if it is unprotected by other units.

3) They can interfere with the enemy's plans by charging enemy units in the rear. They might not do much damage, but they will stop the enemy unit in it's tracks, and force it to turn round if the LC unit does not immediately fall back. It can really stop or slow up the enemy getting into flanking positions to attack your main battle line.

4) They can charge into the flank or rear of an enemy unit that is already in melee. It won't cause an automatic cohesion drop to non light enemy, but it might make all the difference to the result of that melee.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:58 pm It is often advantageous to charge an enemy unit that is already routed. Some possible reasons:

1) The routed unit may have been blocking you from doing something important, like charging another enemy unit in the flank.

2) Your charging unit may pursue and end up charging another enemy unit that was otherwise beyond normal charge distance.

3) Your unit may be surrounded by the enemy and in a very bad situation, by charging the routed unit they may be able to escape.

I refer to this a 'hailing a taxi'... it gets your unit from one place to another. I see 2 other benefits too...

4) If the routed unit has other units locked onto it (e.g.the unit that routed it), then when you charge with your cavalry (as an example) the routing unit will pull your charging unit and the locked unit (could be several units) along with it.

5) The router may pass through small gaps in their own lines and the router will take all your units (that are in the taxi) through the line as pursuit ignores ZOC. A quick way to get cavalry behind a line, which is where they become really dangerous!

Morbio wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:31 pm

Paul59 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:58 pm It is often advantageous to charge an enemy unit that is already routed. Some possible reasons:

1) The routed unit may have been blocking you from doing something important, like charging another enemy unit in the flank.

2) Your charging unit may pursue and end up charging another enemy unit that was otherwise beyond normal charge distance.

3) Your unit may be surrounded by the enemy and in a very bad situation, by charging the routed unit they may be able to escape.

I refer to this a 'hailing a taxi'... it gets your unit from one place to another. I see 2 other benefits too...

4) If the routed unit has other units locked onto it (e.g.the unit that routed it), then when you charge with your cavalry (as an example) the routing unit will pull your charging unit and the locked unit (could be several units) along with it.

5) The router may pass through small gaps in their own lines and the router will take all your units (that are in the taxi) through the line as pursuit ignores ZOC. A quick way to get cavalry behind a line, which is where they become really dangerous!

and another one I have just remembered:

if you don't want your pursuing units going any further, by charging the router you may disperse it, and therefore free your pursuing units from the pursuit.

Some of these tactics are kind of 'cheesy' though, and ahistorical I feel. The diagonal line conundrum, combined with squares in this game borders on being ridiculous. And the(very commonly used) charging already routed units to gain a further movement bonus is 'gaming the system' in my opinion and kind of ruins the immersiveness of this product. I don't wish to sound negative or whiney on this post(but probably do).
Cheers
Alex

AlexDetrojan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:13 pm Some of these tactics are kind of 'cheesy' though, and ahistorical I feel. The diagonal line conundrum, combined with squares in this game borders on being ridiculous. And the(very commonly used) charging already routed units to gain a further movement bonus is 'gaming the system' in my opinion and kind of ruins the immersiveness of this product. I don't wish to sound negative or whiney on this post(but probably do).
Cheers
Alex

No, your right , they could be construed as gamey. The first problem you mentioned has been cured by the last patch and the second , charging routers, is very situational and could simply tie up yet another one of your units. The only real offender left imho is blocking the rear of a unit to prevent a break off. This could be solved in several ways: the unit that cannot breakoff due to blocking friends takes a cohesion test. Or , lights cannot prevent formed troops from breaking off, and when they do so they simply cause their own blocking light to evade.

I do strongly support mouser's ideas for ending the tactic of using lights to block fallbacks/pushbacks. It is maximum cheese. Which is not to say I don't use it myself right now, but I do so because not doing so would disadvantage me. It would be better if this trick simply didn't exist.

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm I do strongly support mouser's ideas for ending the tactic of using lights to block fallbacks/pushbacks. It is maximum cheese. Which is not to say I don't use it myself right now, but I do so because not doing so would disadvantage me. It would be better if this trick simply didn't exist.

A definite +1 from me on ending this trick of blocking fall backs. I try to avoid it all costs, but I am sure that I have done it on occasion in extreme situations.

With charging routers, I don't think it is anywhere near as unethical, and it comes with a lot of risks to your own unit, it could backfire spectacularly! Also, as has been said already, it is very situational, you very rarely get the chance to do it.

Another thing that irks me about a line of units arranged diagonally, is that the ZOCs can prevent the enemy from charging home at all.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:28 pmAnother thing that irks me about a line of units arranged diagonally, is that the ZOCs can prevent the enemy from charging home at all.

Not really, but it may delay the impact by a turn.

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:03 pm

Paul59 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:28 pmAnother thing that irks me about a line of units arranged diagonally, is that the ZOCs can prevent the enemy from charging home at all.

Not really, but it may delay the impact by a turn.

Yes, that's what I meant. It's still somewhat irksome though!

Paul59 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:28 pm

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:19 pm I do strongly support mouser's ideas for ending the tactic of using lights to block fallbacks/pushbacks. It is maximum cheese. Which is not to say I don't use it myself right now, but I do so because not doing so would disadvantage me. It would be better if this trick simply didn't exist.

A definite +1 from me on ending this trick of blocking fall backs. I try to avoid it all costs, but I am sure that I have done it on occasion in extreme situations.

With charging routers, I don't think it is anywhere near as unethical, and it comes with a lot of risks to your own unit, it could backfire spectacularly! Also, as has been said already, it is very situational, you very rarely get the chance to do it.

One thing I have suggested a few times is that light unit should evade if its blocking push-back by either side. Blocked push-back causing a cohesion test is as exploitable as the current system.

I would also agree that charging routed units is not unrealistic. It's nowhere near as hard to make a unit chase down a fleeing enemy than it is to prevent adrenaline filled warriors from chasing a breaking enemy. It's also pretty unpredictable and I don't remember seeing any examples of it being used in practice for the kind of herculean feats that are often mentioned as a possibility.

If anything I think all units that are ordered to charge routing unit should move into the square that the routing unit occupied rather than staying put which doesn't make much sense.

I'd like to see blocked units have a mechanism where they cant be broken - but just take extra losses. This may stop the practice, but also allow friendlies to block their own units from rout, but take losses - which seems to feel more like what would actually happen. If you cant run - you fight and you die.

General Shapur wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:08 pm I'd like to see blocked units have a mechanism where they cant be broken - but just take extra losses. This may stop the practice, but also allow friendlies to block their own units from rout, but take losses - which seems to feel more like what would actually happen. If you cant run - you fight and you die.

As far as I know historically such tactical situations have usually resulted in extreme losses to the surrounded force with little real resistance. Disbanding of the broken unit is pretty good approximation I think.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:00 pm Always try to get one or two Light Cavalry units behind the enemy army. Some possible reasons:

1) They can charge units that have rallied from routed. A LC unit has a good chance of routing any type of fragmented unit.

2) They can destroy the enemy's Heavy artillery if it is unprotected by other units.

3) They can interfere with the enemy's plans by charging enemy units in the rear. They might not do much damage, but they will stop the enemy unit in it's tracks, and force it to turn round if the LC unit does not immediately fall back. It can really stop or slow up the enemy getting into flanking positions to attack your main battle line.

4) They can charge into the flank or rear of an enemy unit that is already in melee. It won't cause an automatic cohesion drop to non light enemy, but it might make all the difference to the result of that melee.

I think that if the enemy foot are in danger of a rear or flanking charge, they receive a malus on morale, even if the charge does not take place. Please do correct me if I am wrong.