Slitherine

Ok, from start to the close of the store we played a full game of Field of Glory. 3'x5' table as recommended at 750pts. Terrain placement, set up, etc. It was enlightening.

So, questions came up. Alot, actually, though only a few made my list for whatever reason. So, as we continue to play and more questions come up, I will post here. The first round:

- Does turning 90 or 180 degrees use up any MU? The rules would seem to suggest no, as you can usually turn and then make a simple move.

- Light Horse count as skirmishers for the maneuvers they can do, correct? So, there is really no point to having any LF or LH that are drilled, right?

- For POA's, some things mention cavalry. Just because LH is on horse back does not make them cavalry, correct? The only units that count as Cavalry are those that are listed as such (just like Knights, etc), correct?

- We had a situation where a unit of 6 crossbowmen were in a long line, with a short unit of turkopoles were blocking the 'center' of the line. I had two units on either end of the line in range (one on one side of the turks, one on the other). Can the two bases on one end of the line shoot at one unit, and two bases on the other end of a line shoot at the other one?

- How do you determine LOS to bases? For example, lets use the situation above. If you have a line like this:

CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB
00-00-TK-TK-00-00
00-00-TK-TK-00-00
AR-AR-00-00-AR-AR
AR-AR-00-00-AR-AR

CB - Crossbow, TK - Turk, AR - Archer, 00 - open area, etc

The two CB bases on either end have a clear LOS directly ahead. Now, lets say that the turks were over, in front of one of the bases, but not fully. So, there is a tiny gap that the 2nd base in can see the archers with. That doesnt block LOS, does it?

Now, using the example above.. the 3rd CB base in cant get a direct LOS to the archers straight ahead (but could if the Turks were not there). But, it is within 1 base width of a base that CAN draw LOS to it, and at an angle the 3rd one in (if you didnt measure straight ahead). Does it get to shoot as well?

- Do you count a commander as being with a unit when it is shot? For example, a commander is on a 40x40mm base, while the rest of the unit is 40x15mm. An enemy only has the commander in the unit in 'range' as the shorter bases of the rest of the unit are outside of the range. How does that work?

- Where do you put commanders with a unit? Does it have to follow the rules with formation? Example below:

CB-CB-CB-CB
CB-CB-CB-CB
CO

or

CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB
CO

or

CB-CB-CB-CB
CB-CB
CO

Where do you have to 'put' the commander which has joined a unit?

- When do you attempt to rally troops? We had some funny situations due to our mistake with shooting (somehow, we got mixed up and thought if you hit with a single hit in shooting that your target had to take a cohesion test.. which resulted in about half our armies disrupted in the first two rounds), and were having trouble figuring out how to rally.

Lets say during the shooting phase of my turn, a unit breaks. It runs. Joint Action phase I have a commander leave a nearby unit to chase after them, and they continue to run (every Joint Action phase, right?). My turn, during the maneuver phase, the commander 'joins' the unit. Do I test at the start of the JA phase, or do they continue to run first? We said that we tested first, if succeeded they stopped. If failed they run, and the CO does not run with them (basically, he stopped to try and rally them, failed, and now he can either try to chase after them still, or go back to the battle). Is that right?


Thats it for right now, though I have a few more that I need to figure out how to word.

Thanks in advance for the help, we are slowly getting all of this down.

Omar wrote:Ok, from start to the close of the store we played a full game of Field of Glory. 3'x5' table as recommended at 750pts. Terrain placement, set up, etc. It was enlightening.

So, questions came up. Alot, actually, though only a few made my list for whatever reason. So, as we continue to play and more questions come up, I will post here. The first round:

- Does turning 90 or 180 degrees use up any MU? The rules would seem to suggest no, as you can usually turn and then make a simple move.

No

Omar wrote:- Light Horse count as skirmishers for the maneuvers they can do, correct? So, there is really no point to having any LF or LH that are drilled, right?

There is no point cost for LH or LF to be drilled (page149)

Omar wrote:

- For POA's, some things mention cavalry. Just because LH is on horse back does not make them cavalry, correct? The only units that count as Cavalry are those that are listed as such (just like Knights, etc), correct?

Correct

Omar wrote:

- We had a situation where a unit of 6 crossbowmen were in a long line, with a short unit of turkopoles were blocking the 'center' of the line. I had two units on either end of the line in range (one on one side of the turks, one on the other). Can the two bases on one end of the line shoot at one unit, and two bases on the other end of a line shoot at the other one?

- How do you determine LOS to bases? For example, lets use the situation above. If you have a line like this:

CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB
00-00-TK-TK-00-00
00-00-TK-TK-00-00
AR-AR-00-00-AR-AR
AR-AR-00-00-AR-AR

CB - Crossbow, TK - Turk, AR - Archer, 00 - open area, etc

The two CB bases on either end have a clear LOS directly ahead. Now, lets say that the turks were over, in front of one of the bases, but not fully. So, there is a tiny gap that the 2nd base in can see the archers with. That doesnt block LOS, does it?

Now, using the example above.. the 3rd CB base in cant get a direct LOS to the archers straight ahead (but could if the Turks were not there). But, it is within 1 base width of a base that CAN draw LOS to it, and at an angle the 3rd one in (if you didnt measure straight ahead). Does it get to shoot as well?

Someone with greater authority will need to answer this one, but i believe it may not meet the requirements for overhead shooting and line of sight on page 82

Omar wrote:

- Do you count a commander as being with a unit when it is shot? For example, a commander is on a 40x40mm base, while the rest of the unit is 40x15mm. An enemy only has the commander in the unit in 'range' as the shorter bases of the rest of the unit are outside of the range. How does that work?

- Where do you put commanders with a unit? Does it have to follow the rules with formation? Example below:

CB-CB-CB-CB
CB-CB-CB-CB
CO

or

CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB
CO

or

CB-CB-CB-CB
CB-CB
CO

Where do you have to 'put' the commander which has joined a unit?

I believe that you would have to target one of the bases in the battle group instead of the commander. The commander goes in the front rank if he is aiding the unit in close combat, if not then he may be in the rear. The first example would be as follows (if the commander was aiding the unit in combat and adjusting for differences in base depth):

CO-CB-CB-CB
CB-CB-CB-CB
CB

Omar wrote:

- When do you attempt to rally troops? We had some funny situations due to our mistake with shooting (somehow, we got mixed up and thought if you hit with a single hit in shooting that your target had to take a cohesion test.. which resulted in about half our armies disrupted in the first two rounds), and were having trouble figuring out how to rally.

Lets say during the shooting phase of my turn, a unit breaks. It runs. Joint Action phase I have a commander leave a nearby unit to chase after them, and they continue to run (every Joint Action phase, right?). My turn, during the maneuver phase, the commander 'joins' the unit. Do I test at the start of the JA phase, or do they continue to run first? We said that we tested first, if succeeded they stopped. If failed they run, and the CO does not run with them (basically, he stopped to try and rally them, failed, and now he can either try to chase after them still, or go back to the battle). Is that right?

This is in the rules as Bolstering and rallying (pages 109-110) and can be done during the joint action phase when the general is with the unit.

Omar wrote:

Thats it for right now, though I have a few more that I need to figure out how to word.

Thanks in advance for the help, we are slowly getting all of this down.

Omar wrote:Lets say during the shooting phase of my turn, a unit breaks. It runs. Joint Action phase I have a commander leave a nearby unit to chase after them, and they continue to run (every Joint Action phase, right?). My turn, during the maneuver phase, the commander 'joins' the unit. Do I test at the start of the JA phase, or do they continue to run first? We said that we tested first, if succeeded they stopped. If failed they run, and the CO does not run with them (basically, he stopped to try and rally them, failed, and now he can either try to chase after them still, or go back to the battle). Is that right?

If you want to know when things happen and in what order, look at page 168.

This lists what happens in each phase and the order that they happen within the phase is the order in which they are listed.

In this case, in the JAP and ignoring other things that might occur in the JAP:

FIRST Commanders move
THEN try to rally BG
THEN rout if failed (in this case the commander has the option to stand still or rout with the BG, see p 110)

Commanders

The only rules governing Commanders positioning are on page 49.

Commanders are never part of a BG, they can only be "with" a BG. They are not subject to the rules on BG formations, they can go anywhere. They don't even have to face the same way as the BG they are with.

Commanders can never be shot at. Troop bases can only be shot if they are actually in range.

Omar wrote: - We had a situation where a unit of 6 crossbowmen were in a long line, with a short unit of turkopoles were blocking the 'center' of the line. I had two units on either end of the line in range (one on one side of the turks, one on the other). Can the two bases on one end of the line shoot at one unit, and two bases on the other end of a line shoot at the other one?

- How do you determine LOS to bases? For example, lets use the situation above. If you have a line like this:

CB-CB-CB-CB-CB-CB
00-00-TK-TK-00-00
00-00-TK-TK-00-00
AR-AR-00-00-AR-AR
AR-AR-00-00-AR-AR

CB - Crossbow, TK - Turk, AR - Archer, 00 - open area, etc

The two CB bases on either end have a clear LOS directly ahead. Now, lets say that the turks were over, in front of one of the bases, but not fully. So, there is a tiny gap that the 2nd base in can see the archers with. That doesnt block LOS, does it?

Now, using the example above.. the 3rd CB base in cant get a direct LOS to the archers straight ahead (but could if the Turks were not there). But, it is within 1 base width of a base that CAN draw LOS to it, and at an angle the 3rd one in (if you didnt measure straight ahead). Does it get to shoot as well?

It's hard to answer them on here because it depends on the exact positioning of the bases, which isn't entirely clear.

If you read pages 81 and 82, sections TARGET PRIORITY to OVERHEAD SHOOTING you will quite easily be able to work out who can shoot and at what in all your situations.

Does turning 90 or 180 degrees use up any MU? The rules would seem to suggest no, as you can usually turn and then make a simple move.

I wouldn't say you can usually turn and then make a simple move. Skirmishers can always do it, drilled troops and cavalry need a CMT, undrilled can never do it.

Light Horse count as skirmishers for the maneuvers they can do, correct?

Light horse are skirmishers. Under the definition of skirmishers.

The only units that count as Cavalry are those that are listed as such (just like Knights, etc), correct?

I'm not sure quite what you mean about knights, but the only units that count as cavalry are Cavalry. Knights are not Cavalry.

Thanks for the replies. Let me clarify on a few:

- Turning doesnt use up MU, got it. So, when it says that you can do something and then do a 'simple' move after, that means ANY maneuver listed as 'simple' on the chart? Or is it just an advance?

- While I know that LH are listed under skirmishers, the question had more to do with the fact that having drilled skirmishers makes no difference at all. I guess no point difference makes sense.

- POA/Cavalry - We were having a hard time following some of the wording, not sure if cavalry was referring to the dictionary definition of cavalry (as in, soldiers on horseback) or the troop type 'cavalry' (as opposed to light horse, cataphract, knight, etc). Not sure WHY that issue came up, but it did.

- Can a unit shoot at two different targets? If you have two valid targets, and half the unit can shoot at one, and half can shoot at the other, can the halves shoot at the different targets?

- The LOS/range question I will research in the cited pages and repost if I still have an issue.

- So, for all game purposes, a command base might as well not be there. I can put it anywhere on the unit to signify that it is with the unit, when it moves with the unit I dont have to measure for it (I just put it wherever the unit ends up), etc? The only time it HAS to be somewhere is when fighting from the front in close combat, and then it has to be moved up (I knew that part). Is this correct?

- I will also check out the JAP info and post if I have any more questions.


Thanks!

Omar wrote:- Can a unit shoot at two different targets? If you have two valid targets, and half the unit can shoot at one, and half can shoot at the other, can the halves shoot at the different targets?

Yes, normally if there are two targets for a single BG then it must split its shooting. You very rarelyhave any choice about what shoots at what.

- So, for all game purposes, a command base might as well not be there. I can put it anywhere on the unit to signify that it is with the unit, when it moves with the unit I dont have to measure for it (I just put it wherever the unit ends up), etc? The only time it HAS to be somewhere is when fighting from the front in close combat, and then it has to be moved up (I knew that part). Is this correct?

The main function of a command base is to mark the location of the commander. If you wish to move the commander away from a BG then you measure the move based on the location of the commanders base. In order to join another BG the commanders base must be able to reach a valid possition in the BG.

Omar wrote:Thanks for the replies. Let me clarify on a few:

- Turning doesnt use up MU, got it. So, when it says that you can do something and then do a 'simple' move after, that means ANY maneuver listed as 'simple' on the chart? Or is it just an advance?

The chart actually says "simple advance" which means a move which is from the "advances" section of the chart, and is also a "simple" move.

- POA/Cavalry - We were having a hard time following some of the wording, not sure if cavalry was referring to the dictionary definition of cavalry (as in, soldiers on horseback) or the troop type 'cavalry' (as opposed to light horse, cataphract, knight, etc). Not sure WHY that issue came up, but it did.

It means the troop type "cavalry"

Two glosses on the responses

- one hit can force a cohesion test if only 3 bases are counted in the denominator of the 1 per 3 base ratio, such as troops in a single file column since only 3 ranks count; did that in the last battle I fought

- commanders get free turns so if their base is square there is no reason not to face the same way.



And the first commandment of Field of Glory

<b>Thou shalt keep before thee and follow thy detailed Sequence of Play.</b>

Copy and keep it on the table for at least the first 20-50 games until it becomes part of your soul.

Unlike some games where you can do things in flexible order in a 3 or 4 phases, a substantial and key part of the excellence of FoG lies in the sequence of play and how that makes action and reaction flow. Take things out of order and weird things can occur.

Thou shalt keep before thee and follow thy detailed Sequence of Play.

Yea, Verily. Amen.

Re: Cavalry--I find it helpful to think of 'mounted' as the generic term (and it's used as such in the rules. p.14) which includes men riding on horses, camels, elephants and in chariots, which reserves 'cavalry' as a specific term for that troop type (p.128).

I definitely recommend the list & discussion "Common Mistakes: Newbies Start Here : )" at viewtopic.php?t=5918 I printed out the list and reviewed it before and after my first number of games to cement particular or elusive concepts into my facile brain...

What Mark said. The detailed sequence of play is our modus operandi for playing FoG. I strongly recommend reading through it aloud for a number of turns--you'd be amazed at what you find. Skip nothing. We actually missed break off moves for cavalry in the JAP because it came after "Remove Scythed Chariots", which caused me to skip past in search of what seemed relevant, forgetting that break off moves would be relevant sooner than removing scythed chariots

Dale