Slitherine

Greetings All,

Rather than clutter up the unit request thread any more, I thought this may be a better way to have a discussion.

Non-mod, customized units. What can you do, and have you done with just the editor tools to create granularity? No need for spreadsheets, custom sound or animation, or placing every file in the proper place. Just alter a few stats and done. Please chime in with any thoughts or examples or advice from experience!

So far I have made(but not yet tested)...

Partisans. Auxiliary Soviet Mountain Troops - Max Strength 6, Experience 175-200+, +2 Move, +1 Spot, +3 Defense. Nimble little train-stoppers, who are hard to kill in one shot.

Destructible Bridges - Auxiliary Soviet Bridging Engineers - Strength 5-7, high Experience, -2 Move(immobile), -3 Attack(don't even try), +3(or maybe more if allowed) Defense. Allows defenders access to road network, while denying attackers same. Gives attacker option for air-strikes against logistical choke points. Backing these up with AA is suggested. For the Germans, this party is BYOB(bring your own bridges) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clz9ykXMkeM

Pillboxes - Immobile KV-series tanks with Attack and Defense bonuses, placed on fortified hexes. When a strongpoint won't do, but a Fort is too much. If/when they die, another unit can occupy the fortified hex. Why alter fort stats when I have a plethora of tanks to choose from? Just set 'em in concrete, logs and sandbags. They don't stay on the map once spotted like structures do either. Can mix-n-match any size tank for the task at hand. Throw a +1 Spot on for good measure, and you have something. Assists in preventing a defending player from "breaking" a scenario by moving everything up too. A locked door keeps an honest man honest.

Locked "Garrison" Forces - Immobilized AA, A/T and Artillery at VLs. The Holy Trinity that should remain at each major city. Any immobile unit gets bonuses to Attack and Defense of course. An initial ammo bump as well. High Experience gifted to all locked units.

The unit editor has opened up quite a few doors for me. Please feel free to share what you think.

Thanks for your attention.

Just for reference/possible comparison, did you have a look at Battlefield Europe, this mod has some of the above as well, maybe worth checking... I also sent you a PM.

Hello Analog,

So many ideas and intriguing at that. I haven't created any editor-modded units like these but I can give some feedback/thoughts on those that you've put forth. I'm assuming these units would be for a campaign-wrapped-up-in-a-single-scenario similar to McGuba's BE and your own work-in-progress. My own preference would be to mod the data and efx files so I could have custom icons and not have to use the same icons for very different units (for example, bridge engineers and destructible bridges). But your idea of editor-modding is interesting so here's my feedback:

Partisans - I've always liked this idea and even created a unit in my data file. I've just never gotten around to using them. Your proposed stats seem good except for exp; seems a bit high to me. It would require testing.

Destructible bridges - Probably the most unique idea of the bunch and my personal favorite. It's hard to say about the stats without a lot of testing. One thing to remember is that units without movement will surrender if attacked and they would normally retreat. I'm not sure if that's true when it's due to a -2 Move hero, maybe someone else has experienced that. One way around it would be to make the bridge a structure but that would require modding the data and efx files to come up with a suitable icon.

Pillboxes - Another good idea, especially putting it on a fortified hex. But this would have the same issue (0 movement) as above. You would need to adjust the stats so that it surrendered after what seems an appropriate amount of damage. I guess the same could be said for the bridges; they collapse (surrender) after an appropriate amount of damage.

Garrisons - This is good too but again has the movement issue. I agree they should receive a defense bonus (due to improvised fortifications) but I'm not sure about an attack bonus. More ammo is good but I'm thinking you wouldn't find a lot of experience in garrison units.

The movement issue might not be a big deal, depending on your point-of-view. All my heavy artillery (150mm+) is modded to Move=0; I figure if my artillery is exposed to a direct attack, I deserve to lose it.

I hope you don't think I'm too critical because you've proposed a lot of good ideas; I'm impressed I will certainly consider employing some of them in my game but will probably go the modded files route. Good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your ideas.

Thanks for the input!

Yeah, I saw your PM Pete, thanks. Sorry I didn't respond. I will get BE soon. McGuba sent me one too.

Great feedback cw. I use high experience in lieu of strength points. Low strength points in lieu of different icon. Quick reference without modding.

The partisans will be tested for sure. I like high experience, as it allows a unit to punch above its weight class.

I like that an immobile unit surrenders. They will take a lot before going down with the stat tweaks that I give them. I want the bridges and pillboxes to "blow". They served their purpose if they survived to come under direct attack. A bridge under direct attack is lost anyway.

My use of the word garrison may be confusing, as I also equate them to low-quality units. The troops that I use for Garrison duty are 8-strength Soviet Conscripts and 6-strength German early infantry. The supporting arms, however, are another kettle of fish entirely. They are the backbone of whatever units arrive to defend the city from direct mass attack. These trios are placed sparingly in only the most important cities.

My use of high experience and high attack on immobile units also lets them get a good lick or two in before going down. I could give them enough of an initiative boost that they always fire first in every engagement as well.

All my immobile units will need to be tested a bit. I may end up with over-strength bridges and pillboxes, just to get them to stick around under fire for a reasonable time.

EDIT - Further granularity achieved. By adjusting the Defense, Strength(over/under) and Entrenchment of my faux bridges, I can emulate anything from a wooden cart bridge to a concrete highway bridge. A 15-strength, +5 Defense, 6 Entrenched bridge is a hard target... river hex penalty or not. That will require a direct attack, not just air power. The Defense field in the hero adjust window allows up to 99,999 to be entered before the numbers turn red(not allowed). I may just push my locked units up to +10 or so and see what happens. Suppress THAT biotches.

AnalogGamer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:55 pm Thanks for the input!

Yeah, I saw your PM Pete, thanks. Sorry I didn't respond. I will get BE soon. McGuba sent me one too.

OK, thanks. No worries, all good as long as you received the PM!

Here is a question. If I give a unit a negative move hero, thereby rending it immobile... then give that unit transport that exceeds the unit's base allowance; What happens?

Does the transported unit get the full transport move amount, or the hero's negative multiplier? Not a deal-breaker, and I wouldn't mind really.

This just gets better in the bridge department, as well as "garrison" AA, A/T and artillery. Bridges of various strength, large-caliber artillery and anti-aircraft, as well as anti-tank weapons could all be "semi-static".

SOME bridges will get a truck. Some garrison equipment will be placed directly on city hexes, thereby giving the player the option to buy transport. You pick it up, move it to its exact destination, plop it down, done.

Talk about historical immersion. The tactical decision to pull out before the unit may be suppressed into surrendering.... whoa Nellie. The "live to fight another day" decision. How many supporting arms units were over-run because they could not move in time?

Newest Entry - The "Mothball" Fleet. Obsolete vessels swaying at anchor in coves, until the war comes a-calling. Slow and weak, but still pack a punch if they can get into position.

Example - Battleship - 7-strength, 150 EXP, -1 Move, -1 Range, +5 Attack. A waddling hog on ice that will not stand up to ranged fire, but can still smack something hard once in range. Cruiser is 8-strength. +2 Attack, with the negative range and move.

Conversely, I could give someone WW2 Harpoon/Tomahawk missiles with a +5 range. Ticonderoga-class GC anyone?

EDIT - Made refit possible. Mothballed ships can start at 5-strength, and can be repaired to 7 or 8 in a port.