Slitherine

Are you happy with engineers?
While they are sometimes useful with their utility abilities, their combat performance leaves much to be desired. I wish they would have a trait that gives them an attack- and defense-bonus against fortifications/structures like in Panzer Corps.

Structures are in fact infantry with high defence values. I don't really know what would be better, to have mechanical defence - but then need to fight them with tanks... or let them have even more dig-in values so an anti-entrechment unit like the engineers could have a bonus... I wouldn't mind to have Sturmpioniere and such, but then they should be a rather combative unit not utility ones.

The engineers in OoB are universal ones performing all kind of jobs, including that of combat engineers. No simple engineer unit, like the Seabees and Bautruppe, would equip flamethrowers.

Infantry-defense type on structures is a must that shouldn't be changed. It can't be that later 88 mm calibers do better than any large cannon/howitzer.
I've given (concrete) bunkers the entrench ability (removed the noEntrench trait in units.csv). They already come with the autoEntrench trait to start fully entrenched in scenarios. Additionally, the received entrenchSupport trait of the engineers, so every adjacent unit is supported like an extension of the fortification. Last but not least, I even allow fortifications to be repaired by slowRepair trait for one point/turn. This demands adding a cost to the structures though.
With all my extra fuss that made fortifications lasting longer, it somewhat gives engineers an advantage over regular infantry, but even when most of the entrenchment is gone, you often just do better with more powerful infantry units or vehicles.

I think I'm not the only one who rather picks something different than engineers as regular core units. Maybe with that extra boost against structures, it could make them maybe somewhat more special and useful than before. The Bautruppe diggers or US Seabees can basically do the same job but are cheaper for a single command point and therefore more useful in a core. Who really blows bridges up in typical scenarios? In that case, I prefer commando units.

Maybe add an engineer switch combat/utility mode?

In Burma Road an engineer unit was quite useful if you bought the Metal Detector -spec (can move and clear mines in the same turn). With a universal carrier one unit can take care of annoying Japanese mines in a huge area. Of course this is partly because the universal carrier has way too much movement.

I would have preferred two types of different engineers :
- Combat Engineers
- Construction Engineers

I must agree with this, utility engineers and combat engineers are very different things. Hungarian call then Utasz (make-way-troops, pioneers) OR Arkasz (Trench fighters) that is the inheritance from WWI stormtroopers aka. trench raiders.

What I'd like to see is if they could repair a rail-bridge, build a section of dirt road or rails. of course the latter not in a single turn

Igor1941 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:38 pm

At least engineers have their unique spec. And well, i just use them as cheap flame-tank or keep them as reserve when enemy try to cut off my supply line. Oob doesnt have “rugged defence” mechanic so its true that engineers cant shine

The German Goliath spec is okay, but most fortifications aren’t placed on high cover terrain like woods and cities where engineers have a high damage. The attack and defense values of infantry types climb over the years that make bunkers less effective anymore, but this isn’t perfectly balanced and won’t really make engineers much more effective against structures compared to other infantry types either.

I'm super happy with engineers at the moment. I always have 2 or 3 of them because:

- their utility abilities are very good if you know how to use them properly
- they use less supply than normal infantry
- they lower enemy efficiency so they act as a mini artillery
- they are excellent artillery retard magnet, since they are weaker they take more damage so AI likes to shoot at them
- they are a great as meat shields for my tanks as they are super cheap to replace
-> with careful positioning the AI can never kill them because they retreat behind your lines to safety

If you would buff them at this point I might consider replacing all my regular infantry with engineers. I guess it depends on you play style, but I found the best strategy to drain enemy efficiency ideally to 7 or lower before doing any actual attacks. For this heavy use of artillery, strategic bombers and engineers is needed. I think this is the most cost efficient strategy. The only weakness is slow progress, however I never found a single mission in OOB too short.

Mojko wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:30 pmI'm super happy with engineers at the moment. I always have 2 or 3 of them

Me too. I find that an engineers unit with an antitank unit is a good combination

terminator wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:34 pm

Mojko wrote: ↑Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:30 pmI'm super happy with engineers at the moment. I always have 2 or 3 of them

Me too. I find that an engineers unit with an antitank unit is a good combination

But only on covert terrain where they shine, I guess.
The point of my post was rather their lacking effectiveness against fortifications which are typically placed on open terrain, but reading all kind of opinions is always fine.

With me, it depends on the difficulty level, I guess. They're really cheap to replace and like Mojko noticed real AI arty MAGNETS. Very useful in absorbing the first strike of the enemy on level 5 - rather than my precious, expensive, high star tanks. Most of the time the AI will target engineers first. When backed up by AT, even real strong ones, the AI will probably attack nonetheless. Won't do that with tanks or heavy inf. otherwise, unless with very high AI agression settings.

Also useful in finishing off units and building bridges (but sames goes for the Bautruppe). Most of the time I use them for their ability to decrease fortification and efficiency of the attacked unit. Poor man's arty... But they're not so useful in middle difficulties IMO.

As for bunkers, though, one or two strikes with arty first and then a flanking attack with some mechanical units. Low risk, high reward: Usually zero losses with German tanks. Why waste infantry on them?

Horst wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:02 am Are you happy with engineers?
While they are sometimes useful with their utility abilities, their combat performance leaves much to be desired. I wish they would have a trait that gives them an attack- and defense-bonus against fortifications/structures like in Panzer Corps.

I think there is a bug with the availability and expiration dates for the engineers


It is impossible to play with the last 1945 model, available from 13/12/1945, the war is already over
This is also valid for other nations such as the United States...
Changing dates could make engineers stronger and therefore more interesting

With all of the engineer updates happening in the last 2 months of each year they should be renamed 38-40- etc -46...