Slitherine

I don't know if it's just me but since the release of the new DLC I have had the most amazing turn around in results. I used to win more than 80% of the games I played but now am lucky if I win 10%. I have not changed tactics since the release and have more or less played the same armies and opponents. My tactics are based on my understanding of ancient warfare and have spanned war games rule sets from WRG 7th edition. I don't have the time or desire to analyse why this is happening but some is pretty obvious. When superior lancers cannot overcome MF dregs by charging them in open terrain and pike phalanxes are held up for 4 rounds in frontal combat against LF also in open terrain without the LF dropping a morale level yet adjacent steady pike phalanxes drop cohesion levels in subsequent rounds from shooting from single LF elements there has to be something seriously wrong. I have read the defense of the AI but it does just not make any sense to me.

Check the difficulty setting, at highest levels the ai troop quality increases.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:26 am I don't know if it's just me but since the release of the new DLC I have had the most amazing turn around in results. I used to win more than 80% of the games I played but now am lucky if I win 10%. I have not changed tactics since the release and have more or less played the same armies and opponents.

This vs the AI or MP? I've played a handful of MP games since the latest DLC and for better or for worse have not noticed any change in results...

76mm wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:39 pm

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:26 am I don't know if it's just me but since the release of the new DLC I have had the most amazing turn around in results. I used to win more than 80% of the games I played but now am lucky if I win 10%. I have not changed tactics since the release and have more or less played the same armies and opponents.

This vs the AI or MP? I've played a handful of MP games since the latest DLC and for better or for worse have not noticed any change in results...

MP games I don't play against the AI. I'm clueless about how my troops are going to perform. The LF vs pike scenario above is just one example of many bizarre results. Have you used any pike armies since the new release?

In general, people have improved a lot. There is now widespread use of unintuitive mechanics to gain edges by the players at the top of the food chain. One of the biggest changes is how much better players are at using skirmishers vs Cavalry and using them to block and delay troops to buy time. They are the perfect fodder, they usually delay at least 2 turns due to how morale works and when they rout, there is no CT test for neighbours. It's part of the reason why armies that lack a good skirmisher wing are increasingly not viable for competitive play.

If you’re playing Indians or any massed archer army... there was a nerf.

MikeC_81 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:11 am In general, people have improved a lot. There is now widespread use of unintuitive mechanics to gain edges by the players at the top of the food chain. One of the biggest changes is how much better players are at using skirmishers vs Cavalry and using them to block and delay troops to buy time. They are the perfect fodder, they usually delay at least 2 turns due to how morale works and when they rout, there is no CT test for neighbours. It's part of the reason why armies that lack a good skirmisher wing are increasingly not viable for competitive play.

Have a look at the picture below. My pike charged a LH in the direction of the 1st shorter Blue arrow. The LH then dogged its way through troops (longer blue arrow)and left the table. My pike turned to face the place it left the table even although that position would not have been visible to them. This never happened before the change and has put me in a number of vulnerable positions which cannot be justified. BTW in another game the LF has now survived 5 turns against my pike in the open and has still not dropped a morale level.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:13 am

MikeC_81 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:11 am In general, people have improved a lot. There is now widespread use of unintuitive mechanics to gain edges by the players at the top of the food chain. One of the biggest changes is how much better players are at using skirmishers vs Cavalry and using them to block and delay troops to buy time. They are the perfect fodder, they usually delay at least 2 turns due to how morale works and when they rout, there is no CT test for neighbours. It's part of the reason why armies that lack a good skirmisher wing are increasingly not viable for competitive play.

Have a look at the picture below. My pike charged a LH in the direction of the 1st shorter Blue arrow. The LH then dogged its way through troops (longer blue arrow)and left the table. My pike turned to face the place it left the table even although that position would not have been visible to them. This never happened before the change and has put me in a number of vulnerable positions which cannot be justified. BTW in another game the LF has now survived 5 turns against my pike in the open and has still not dropped a morale level.

I think none of the changes in the new version should affect that. Maybe just really unlucky. Play more games and report the issue if it still exists.

jomni wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:22 am

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:13 am

MikeC_81 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:11 am In general, people have improved a lot. There is now widespread use of unintuitive mechanics to gain edges by the players at the top of the food chain. One of the biggest changes is how much better players are at using skirmishers vs Cavalry and using them to block and delay troops to buy time. They are the perfect fodder, they usually delay at least 2 turns due to how morale works and when they rout, there is no CT test for neighbours. It's part of the reason why armies that lack a good skirmisher wing are increasingly not viable for competitive play.

Have a look at the picture below. My pike charged a LH in the direction of the 1st shorter Blue arrow. The LH then dogged its way through troops (longer blue arrow)and left the table. My pike turned to face the place it left the table even although that position would not have been visible to them. This never happened before the change and has put me in a number of vulnerable positions which cannot be justified. BTW in another game the LF has now survived 5 turns against my pike in the open and has still not dropped a morale level.

I think none of the changes in the new version should affect that. Maybe just really unlucky. Play more games and report the issue if it still exists.

It won't load the screenshot now. Maybe you're correct I'm having a bad patch although that sample is over a 48 game spell and it started immediately after the change. Yes people are getting better but I can't have got that bad with immediate effect. It is a dramatic and immediate change in results coupled with the weird results. It feels like I'm fighting at a high difficulty level but if no-one else is experiencing it then it can't be a general problem.

you can use imgur if you want to upload it and share the link.

MikeC_81 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:32 am you can use imgur if you want to upload it and share the link.

Thanks I've never used that before.

https://imgur.com/a/bfQ192n

Well after taking that screen shot I can't upload the turn.

MikeC_81 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:32 am you can use imgur if you want to upload it and share the link.

Nooo .. in 6 months time or some time in the future .. that image will vanish and make this thread useless.

Maybe that doesn't matter here, in this particular thread, but I do wish people wouldn't use image hosting sites. It ruins any historical use of the forums.
You should be able to load an image straight from your desktop.

Patrick Ward wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:10 am

MikeC_81 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:32 am you can use imgur if you want to upload it and share the link.

Nooo .. in 6 months time or some time in the future .. that image will vanish and make this thread useless.

Maybe that doesn't matter here, in this particular thread, but I do wish people wouldn't use image hosting sites. It ruins any historical use of the forums.
You should be able to load an image straight from your desktop.

I normally do but it just won't load it. I have been having intermittent trouble with my PM's as well.

Yea after seeing the pic, I have had that happen before. The unit appears to attempt to pursue to the best of its ability till it runs out of AP. Annoying as hell.

jomni wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:03 am If you’re playing Indians or any massed archer army... there was a nerf.

No I am using mostly Pike armies and get shot to pieces by archer armies which never happened before the archers were made "undesirable". As mentioned earlier I've dropped cohesion levels in consecutive rounds from single LF fire. I am also experiencing a very high percentage of double cohesion drops on steady troops when charged. Another strange one is that raw Roman MF fight like Beserkers. I win combats handsomely against them which forces a test but they never seem to drop in cohesion.

MikeC_81 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:20 am Yea after seeing the pic, I have had that happen before. The unit appears to attempt to pursue to the best of its ability till it runs out of AP. Annoying as hell.

The Pike in the picture didn't pursue at all it just did an about turn on the spot. Luckily for me in this instance there is no enemy element able to take advantage of the situation which can be a game changer with Pike being large units.

Not to be rude, but it's in your head. The patch did not effect most base combat calculations. The significant change was the substantial nerfing of massed archers. Read the 1.3.9 patch notes and you'll see what I mean.

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:03 am Not to be rude, but it's in your head. The patch did not effect most base combat calculations. The significant change was the substantial nerfing of massed archers. Read the 1.3.9 patch notes and you'll see what I mean.

I've seen the notes. The LF I have been discussing has now dropped a cohesion level after 6 rounds of frontal combat against a Pike element in open terrain. Please explain how this can be possible if the game is trying to portray historical combat.

What I find bizarre is the idea the skirmishers stood their ground and didn't try and retreat on open terrain against a pike phalanx. Did the unit of skirmishers get caught and disrupted or something? It would be a truly freakish result, but I suppose it is possible the skirmishers somehow survive the initial impact with only a disruption and then passed every single cohesion test that came their way. The chances of that result seem astronomical though when paired against my own experience. Skirmishers caught by heavy infantry on the retreat frequently don't live out the initial impact, let alone turn after turn following that.