Slitherine

Couple of questions if someone could oblige...

1. Routers broken on contact in the impact phase: in their initial rout phase routers move directly away from units in base contact. As the phasing player conforming to enemy groups in contact comes in the movement phase does the broken unit conform to the winners in the impact phase and then rout directly away from them, or does the winning battle group conform to the routers prior to the rout movement as in the movement phase?
2. Had a bit of a situation in a Republican Roman v. Selucid match up. Hastati/Principes battle group flank charged a pike phalanx - dream scenario for the Romans - and managed to rout the pike on impact.
There was another pike phalanx next to the breakers which failed it's cohesion test and became disordered and the rout/pursuit moves were sufficient to force a burst through EXCEPT the routed phalanx was pointing slightly away from the line of the second phalanx and so instead was driven towards some Italians loitering with intent in some rough ground.
The rules state that routers sideslip up to one base width to avoid fresh enemy but if this does not allow them to complete their rout move they stop maximum 1 MU from fresh enemy.
As the Romans stay in base contact each rout move counts as an initial rout, subject to the above, and so, as the Italian allies for various reasons weren't in a position to charge out into the routers, does this mean that the pike basically stand there for the next three JAP, losing a base each time, until they autobreak?
As the Roman player I had visions of rolling up a line of four pike phalanx, instead of which the routed unit actually formed a very effective flank guard!

MalcolmBooth wrote:Couple of questions if someone could oblige...
1. Routers broken on contact in the impact phase: in their initial rout phase routers move directly away from units in base contact. As the phasing player conforming to enemy groups in contact comes in the movement phase does the broken unit conform to the winners in the impact phase and then rout directly away from them, or does the winning battle group conform to the routers prior to the rout movement as in the movement phase?

Neither As you correctly say, conforming happens in the movement phase. Therefore, as the routers move directly away from the bases in contact, they turn 180 or 90 (whichever is nearest to the direction of rout) and then wheel until they are facing exactly away from the pursuers and then rout. This movement is not free as it is not a conform.

2. Had a bit of a situation in a Republican Roman v. Selucid match up. Hastati/Principes battle group flank charged a pike phalanx - dream scenario for the Romans - and managed to rout the pike on impact.
There was another pike phalanx next to the breakers which failed it's cohesion test and became disordered and the rout/pursuit moves were sufficient to force a burst through EXCEPT the routed phalanx was pointing slightly away from the line of the second phalanx and so instead was driven towards some Italians loitering with intent in some rough ground.
The rules state that routers sideslip up to one base width to avoid fresh enemy but if this does not allow them to complete their rout move they stop maximum 1 MU from fresh enemy.
As the Romans stay in base contact each rout move counts as an initial rout, subject to the above, and so, as the Italian allies for various reasons weren't in a position to charge out into the routers, does this mean that the pike basically stand there for the next three JAP, losing a base each time, until they autobreak?
As the Roman player I had visions of rolling up a line of four pike phalanx, instead of which the routed unit actually formed a very effective flank guard!

No - if you are prevented from completing your rout move then you are destroyed. Page 99 third white bullet point:

"Battle groups that cannot complete a rout move by any of the above means are destroyed at the end of the phase"

So in this scenario, the unit would stop 1 MU from enemy and then be removed from play (either in the impact of JAP phase).

I also note you said that because the pursuers remained in contact then this counts as an initial rout - that is also not correct, the initial rout move is the first rout move taken, all subsequent moves are covered by "routers and pursuers" on page 107.

Hi Dave and thanks for the clarifications

Looking at point 1, on page 108, second bullet point says 'Broken troops in contact with the enemy at the start of this phase move again using the same rules as for their initial rout move:', which is where my confusion arose

For point 2, just to close it down, if routers can't move their full rout distance including any VMD then they are destroyed, would that be the correct interpretation?

MalcolmBooth wrote:Hi Dave and thanks for the clarifications

Looking at point 1, on page 108, second bullet point says 'Broken troops in contact with the enemy at the start of this phase move again using the same rules as for their initial rout move:', which is where my confusion arose

Yeah, some of the points are slightly different and in the main, it does refer back to the initial rout section, but there are some differences - like in subsequent rout phases they can shift two bases to avoid obstacles.

For point 2, just to close it down, if routers can't move their full rout distance including any VMD then they are destroyed, would that be the correct interpretation?

Yes. Sometimes they burst through stuff meaning they go more than their distance, but enemy stop them and they are destroyed if that is the case.

Hi Dave, thanks once again
At the risk of going on ad nauseum about routers, the 'no VMD roll' and 2 base width slide appears in the first bullet point on page 108 which seems to continue the last bullet point on page 107 which specifies 'not in contact with enemy' whereas the second bullet point on page 108 specifically refers to broken troops in contact with the enemy
That seems fairly unequivocal and suggests the intention that routers with enemy in contact will continue to be driven in front of the pursuers without the flexibility of movement allowed to routers who aren't in contact and are just doing a runner

MalcolmBooth wrote:Hi Dave, thanks once again
At the risk of going on ad nauseum about routers, the 'no VMD roll' and 2 base width slide appears in the first bullet point on page 108 which seems to continue the last bullet point on page 107 which specifies 'not in contact with enemy' whereas the second bullet point on page 108 specifically refers to broken troops in contact with the enemy
That seems fairly unequivocal and suggests the intention that routers with enemy in contact will continue to be driven in front of the pursuers without the flexibility of movement allowed to routers who aren't in contact and are just doing a runner

Sorry, yes, it does appear that you only shift one base if you begin with enemy in contact with you. A new one on me!

Life's just one long learning experience sometimes

A new one on me!

It will be no consolation Dave but I missed it too.

petedalby wrote:

A new one on me!

It will be no consolation Dave but I missed it too.

And people place their trust in you 2.
I'm just going to ask Briggs from now on

philqw78 wrote:

petedalby wrote:

A new one on me!

It will be no consolation Dave but I missed it too.

And people place their trust in you 2.
I'm just going to ask Briggs from now on

It's incorrectly formatted in the book as well.

Incorrectly formatted! That surely makes a difference to what words mean. Umpires! Pah!

philqw78 wrote:Incorrectly formatted! That surely makes a difference to what words mean. Umpires! Pah!

Surely not as bad as those useless theme setting people who manage to set a period where one of the armies doesn't exist in the date range...

dave_r wrote:

philqw78 wrote: Surely not as bad as those useless theme setting people who manage to set a period where one of the armies doesn't exist in the date range...

The City States did exist in the date range. You just got tanked using it, proving they couldn't field a worthwhile army at that time