Slitherine

Hi There
Just been reading rules need a bit of help. If a BG of eight bases in two ranks is charged in the impact phase do the second rank count as shooting and in that case do they add there two dice rolls score to the number of hits they do to the enemy BG
Dave

As many of the second rank shoot as front rank fight. They fire at shooting POA's so would need 6 to hit foot and 5 to hit mounted most of the time. (- POA v's foot, and -POA in contact)

Rear rank bases armed with missile weapons can shoot overhead when charged but only if the front rank bases are MF or HF.

A BG of LF crossbow if charged will not get any defensive fire
A BG with a rear rank of LF crossbow will get 1 dice of defensive fire per 2 bases contacted but only against mounted
A BG with a rear rank of MF crossbow will get 1 dice per contacted base against any opponent.

hammy wrote:Rear rank bases armed with missile weapons can shoot overhead when charged but only if the front rank bases are MF or HF.

A BG of LF crossbow if charged will not get any defensive fire
A BG with a rear rank of LF crossbow will get 1 dice of defensive fire per 2 bases contacted but only against mounted

Strictly, LF in the second rank behind MF or HF charged by mounted will get 1 dice of defensive fire per base, but then (normally) lose 1 dice per 2. If three bases are shooting you get 2 dice because of the way rounding works in the game.

A BG with a rear rank of MF crossbow will get 1 dice per contacted base against any opponent.

hammy wrote:Rear rank bases armed with missile weapons can shoot overhead when charged but only if the front rank bases are MF or HF.

A BG of LF crossbow if charged will not get any defensive fire
A BG with a rear rank of LF crossbow will get 1 dice of defensive fire per 2 bases contacted but only against mounted
A BG with a rear rank of MF crossbow will get 1 dice per contacted base against any opponent.

Maybe I'm missing something:

1. A Battle Group of Crowbows Medium Infantry numbering 8 bases in two ranks of four bases will or will not get the shooting support when charged by anything coming in contact with the front rank of the same BG.

Dave
confused.com

If MF they will get the XBows shooting at contact against mounted or foot if receiving a charge.

If they were a unit of completely LF they would get none.

If in a mixed BG, LF in a second or third rank would shoot against mounted in the impact if receiving a charge.

david53 wrote: 1. A Battle Group of Crowbows Medium Infantry numbering 8 bases in two ranks of four bases will or will not get the shooting support when charged by anything coming in contact with the front rank of the same BG.

Dave
confused.com

Each base frontally contacted will get support shooting from the base behind. This will be 1 Dice per base as it is the first shooting rank.

So if you are charged by 4 bases of knights then the knights will get 8 dice at ++ (lance & mtd vs MF) and you will get 8 dice at -- (lance and & mtd vs MF) plus 4 dice at -- (xbow vs HA knights & support shooting)

Do XBow get a minus v's HA mounted? At work so curious.

philqw78 wrote:Do XBow get a minus v's HA mounted? At work so curious.

No they don't. Crossbow are on an even POA against all mounted regardless of armour or formation.

For Dave:

For every base you have fighting at impact you will get one base providing support shooting. You get one dice of support shooting on top of the two impact dice. If your support shooting is being provided by light foot you then lose 1 dice for every two you have.

You don't get support shooting if the whole of your BG is light foot or your BG is mounted.

One of the problems with answering questions like this online is that your initial question only mentioned crossbows, not what type of crossbow (light foot, medium foot, cavalry or light horse) as the answer is different depending on the type of crossbow it needs to include a number of ifs and buts.

Hope you have finally worked things out

hammy wrote:

philqw78 wrote:Do XBow get a minus v's HA mounted? At work so curious.

No they don't. Crossbow are on an even POA against all mounted regardless of armour or formation.

For Dave:

For every base you have fighting at impact you will get one base providing support shooting. You get one dice of support shooting on top of the two impact dice. If your support shooting is being provided by light foot you then lose 1 dice for every two you have.

You don't get support shooting if the whole of your BG is light foot or your BG is mounted.

One of the problems with answering questions like this online is that your initial question only mentioned crossbows, not what type of crossbow (light foot, medium foot, cavalry or light horse) as the answer is different depending on the type of crossbow it needs to include a number of ifs and buts.

Hope you have finally worked things out

Hammy I think I have it but will ask you this during some free time Sunday if thats okey.
Dave

I am confused :

bow and Xbow who shoot from the rear rank at INF have just a "-" factor, not - factor for Xbow against INF + "-"for the impact ! sop thney should always hit with 5-6 and not 6 as mentionned in one of the answers

How do you work that out?

Support shooting at Impact use shooting PoAs of which there is one for shooting in the Impact pahse and another from Crossbows shooting at various infantry types (well HF and MF) so you get a double -ve so you hit on 6 only.

At least that is what the voices in my head tell me ...

Ok , I had in mind that the "-" POA for shooting as support during impact was the "final" factor . I stand corrected

bahdahbum wrote:I am confused :

bow and Xbow who shoot from the rear rank at INF have just a "-" factor, not - factor for Xbow against INF + "-"for the impact ! sop thney should always hit with 5-6 and not 6 as mentionned in one of the answers

It's not explicit in the rules, but it makes sense if the POAs are added together rather than only one counting (e.g. the effect of cover).

So crossbow vs foot = - and shooting in the impact phase = - , total --

longbow vs deep unproteced cavalry = ++ and shooting in the impact phase = - , total +
ditto with the cavalry charging through woods (in cover = -) , total No POA.

The underlying assumption is that the shooters are more panicky, or get less shots off as they change to a melee weapon, or as the targets charge quickly across the beaten zone, or the front ranks obsure the targets from rear rank shots when the targets get close enough, hence shooting in the impact phase is less effective than normal shooting.

One could argue that impact phase shooting is at point blank, so more effective against armour, hence is always at a total of - . This isn't quite what the paragraph near the top of page 99 says. If they had said "an additional - POA" instead of "a - POA" it would have been clearer, but the fact that they refer to "Shooting POAs" indicates to me that the - is in addition to the normal shooting POA.

Clear as day to me - no implication

nikgaukroger wrote:Clear as day to me - no implication

The trick is to explain why it is clear to you to one to whom it is not clear.

perhaps because some of us are not NATIVE english speaking

bahdahbum wrote:perhaps because some of us are not NATIVE english speaking

Well the rules will be available in French, Spanish, German and Italian in February next year. Hopefully this should help players for whom English is not their first language. They have been translated by gamers, rather than translation services so they should say the same as the English rules.

so they should say the same as the English rules.

Even the writers can't agree on what that means sometimes.

hammy wrote:

bahdahbum wrote:perhaps because some of us are not NATIVE english speaking

Well the rules will be available in French, Spanish, German and Italian in February next year. Hopefully this should help players for whom English is not their first language. They have been translated by gamers, rather than translation services so they should say the same as the English rules.

So......will there be an American/English version too? Sorry, I just could not stop myself, I had to ask.

Um....I also must say........FoG's rules ARE a big improvement over a certain "other set" of wargaming rules. My longtime, regular, old fart opponents and I do NOT miss having three or even four interpretations of the same sentence(s)

Anyway......good rules. We like the suppliments and enjoy using the various starter armies.