Slitherine

Any thoughts on the Catalans? This is an interesting list, but it is very light and somewhat bogged down by the required 4 undrilled shock cavalry (either Knights or Lancers).

The idea with this list is to drop the initiative down to +1 (I don't think you can afford to go to +0) to try and get the first move. The relative abundance of LF is there to dominate DGo (which enemies might be tempted to deploy to keep your army confined) and the Catalans easily dominate Uneven or Rough Ground withe Almughavars.

The trouble is that the Almughavars have to do more than dominate terrain, they have to win the game for you. That is why I went with offensive spear instead of impact foot - more versatile against a wider variety of opponents. The Cavalls are taken as knights as they seem more useful in small numbers, but obviously they need to be carefully protected.

I considered lists with many more LH, but then it seems to turn the army into a LH army and that doesn't seem to me to be a strength, if you want a LH army there are better choices.

So the doctrine is move first, use your fast and maneuverable MF to make a rush on one part of the enemy line while your 12 turks do their best to slow down the enemy on the other flank. Bring up the Cavalls behind the MF to deliver a decisive charge.


1 Almughavar Skirmishers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6 4 24 2 3
2 Almughavar Skirmishers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6 4 24 2 3
3 Turks LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - Swordsmen - 6 10 60 2 3
4 Greek Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 6 5 30 2 3
5 Turks LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - Swordsmen - 6 10 60 2 3
6 Greek Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 6 5 30 2 3
7 Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 6 10 60 2 4
8 Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 6 10 60 2 4
9 Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 6 10 60 2 4
10 Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8 10 80 2 5
11 Almughavars MF Protected Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8 10 80 2 5
12 Cavalls Armats Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled - Lancers Swordsmen - 4 23 92 1 3

Don't at least 4 of the cavals have to be Armored cavalry Lancers or am I missing something? I have considered the Catalans, seeing as how I have an Aragonese army already. I also like the history of the Company and how they reacted to the many employers that tried to give them the shaft.

Chris R.

chrisrivers wrote:Don't at least 4 of the cavals have to be Armored cavalry Lancers or am I missing something? I have considered the Catalans, seeing as how I have an Aragonese army already. I also like the history of the Company and how they reacted to the many employers that tried to give them the shaft.

Chris R.

Yes they do so this list is sadly illegal

Gives you more points to spend on other stuff though.
FWIW

3 BG of 4 for the Turks

Got to be Offensive Spear for the MF.

I would take some of the MF as unprotected for use in open terrain against the more heavily armoured enemy you are likely to meet there. They will be on the same POA's as protected troops against HA and armd opponents, and only cost 8pts each IIRC. Dropping the Kn to Cv and the unprotected MF will probably give you an extra BG of MF

This is a fast moving hard hitting army that is drilled. So I would also take minmimum BG size for all and use them like the Pinner Dominate Romans.

Need to get my brushes out again. Hmm, shieldless, superior, drilled Picts

philqw78 wrote:I would take some of the MF as unprotected for use in open terrain against the more heavily armoured enemy you are likely to meet there. They will be on the same POA's as protected troops against HA and armd opponents, and only cost 8pts each IIRC.

I think that the Almughavars need to be protected in order to swiftly deal with the large quantities of protected foot they will see. Pikes, for instance. No need to give the Pk three POAs.

Marc

If you take the MF as unprotected you are going to be terribly vulnerable to anyone with a bow.

I think the split between 6s and 8s for the MF is a useful one. There are two BGs of 8s there ready and waiting for a TC to lead them, with some extra 6s hanging around to provide maneuver.

Bringing them in monday to see how they fare ?

ethan wrote:If you take the MF as unprotected you are going to be terribly vulnerable to anyone with a bow.

I think the split between 6s and 8s for the MF is a useful one. There are two BGs of 8s there ready and waiting for a TC to lead them, with some extra 6s hanging around to provide maneuver.

That was what I thought until I faced Picts. In decent sized BGs with rear support and an IC shooting really doesn't do much except chip the odd base off. Add in the fact that MF can charge as far as bow can shoot effectively and it isn't as bad as it might seem.

hammy wrote:

ethan wrote:If you take the MF as unprotected you are going to be terribly vulnerable to anyone with a bow.

I think the split between 6s and 8s for the MF is a useful one. There are two BGs of 8s there ready and waiting for a TC to lead them, with some extra 6s hanging around to provide maneuver.

That was what I thought until I faced Picts. In decent sized BGs with rear support and an IC shooting really doesn't do much except chip the odd base off. Add in the fact that MF can charge as far as bow can shoot effectively and it isn't as bad as it might seem.

Not sure you can get enough Catalans to provide a lot of rear support. They are 9/10 AP a base. Picts are what 6?

Scrumpy wrote:Bringing them in monday to see how they fare ?

Considering it, but so many armies I want to use...

Picts are 6, Catalans are 8. (if unprotected) Why waste points on armour that is not going to do much good against the hard things you fight. If they enemy you are fighting is protected, they are generally lower quality.

Played with and against this list lately and the OS MF in groups of 8 are the way to go. At least vs shooty armies.

I thought the Greeks were poor? The troop type that I like most is the Almughavar skirmishes with Jav. What I've been using is...

8xMF almug OS
8xMF Almug OS
8xMF Almug OS
6xLF Almug Jav
6xLF Almug Jav
8xLF xbow
4xCV Turk unprot
4xCv Turk unprot
4xKn
4xCV arm
8xLF Greek
6xLH Turk
IC
2xTC
Conversely I like going second with the opportunity to place terrain. If I take the Turks as protected I tend to think of them as MBT's and they quickly die. I also like the LF in larger BGs both to increase my firepower but also to give them some heft when facing other shooting...

Madcam.

Additionally Ethan, IIRC you have to take at least 4 bases of the armor Cavalls alforrats as they are 4-12 under Total Bases.

Madcam.