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Aircrafts

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:39 am
by JagdpanzerIV
Ok, i don't really know much about aircrafts but i would like to know which one could be added to the pzequip file (modding)

Starting with the Bf 109, we get the E,F,G,K version BUT
like the G version i'm guessing by the release dates we have the G-2 (may 42) in game. The G-6 came out later around feb 43 and was the most produced of them all +-12000 built.
The G-10 and G-14 were also built in huge numbers (2600?-5500?) more than the G-2 anyways.

So if i were to add them, what kind of stats should i give them?

in game we get those i believe;
E-3
F-2
G-2
K-4

please feel free to add infos on any aircrafts worth adding, thanks!

Re: Aircrafts

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 am
by Yrfin
I have my own file for Aircrafts (not complite but still in development :).
Avia_Weapon.zip
(32.12 KiB) Downloaded 164 times
.
Also I did Luftwaffe airplanes (switchable) for my YEFA mod.
Luftwaffe.zip
(914 Bytes) Downloaded 155 times
Maybe its can be helpfull :)

Re: Aircrafts

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:29 am
by JagdpanzerIV
what initiative, Air Attack and air defense would you give to the air planes in your file?
i looked quickly at the BF 109 series and the G-14 is missing with 5 500 units built.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messersch ... 9_variants
Also i don't understand russian, besides kak dela and a few words :P

Re: Aircrafts

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:13 pm
by McGuba
I do belive that the Bf 109G (fighter) should have at least 3 subtypes in the game. The various G models were produced from early 1942 to the end of the war and throughout this time lots of changes and improvments were made. If there is only one Bf 109G present, these improvements are ignored, which is quite unhistorical as a late war G-10 or G-14 was much superior to an early Bf 109G-2.

Therefore, in my mods I made three main versions: G-2, G-6 and G-14, however, there could be room for the G-10 version as well, but I decided to leave it out as historically it appeared at around the same time as the K version which was somewhat superior to it. (Confusingly, the G-10 appeared AFTER the G-14.) The reason behind the paralel production of the G-10 and K was not all factories were able to switch to the newer model quickly enough and they did not want to disrupt the production. But in the game the player would only see the two types appearing at around the same time (Oct-Nov 1944), with the K having slightly better stats so there would be not much point in upgrading to the G-10, unless the K is placed in a different upgrade family to vastly increase the price of this upgrade. Or, another option would be to leave them in the same upgrade family, but making the K much more expensive, but with only slightly better stats.

Anyway, my current stats for the Bf 109G sub-types are:
G-2 Ini: 10, AA: 14, AD: 20
G-6 Ini: 10, AA: 16, AD: 20
G-14 Ini: 11, AA: 16, AD: 21

According to this site: (http://kurfurst.org/), their max speeds were not too different at sea level and at higher altitude (6.3 km):
G-2: 522 (636) km/h
G-6: 520 (645) km/h
G-14: 567 (650) km/h

Although other sources may have other values, these are quite all right for me and this aspect does not have a huge effect on their stats. Only the G-14 gets an initiative and an air defence bonus for getting the MW 50 power boosting water injection system in 1944 for improved (but limited time) low/medium-altitude performance, which can be seen in its higher low level maximum speed. Another important factor to justify a slightly higher initiative and defense for the G-14 would be the introduction of the Erla-Haube canopy, which improved the visibility, especially to the rear.

Armament:
G-2: 2 x 7.9 mm MG 17, 1 x 20 mm MG 151/20
G-6: 2 x 13 mm MG 131, 1 x 20 mm MG 151/20 (or 30 mm MG 108 from late 1943)
G-14: 2 x 13 mm MG 131, 1 x 20 mm MG 151/20 or 30 mm MG 108

As for the air attack, only the switch to the 13 mm MG 131 heavy machine gun has a meaningful effect: whereas the G-2 had a pair of 7.9 mm MG 17 machine guns, starting with the G-6 the heavier MG 131 was added. According to this site: (http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm), the overall firepower of the Bf 109G was increased by roughly 15-20% thanks to the addition of the heavier machine guns, hence the 2 point increase in the air attack stat.

Both the G-6 (from late 1943) and the G-14 were sometimes equipped with the 30 mm MK 108 cannon instead of the lighter 20 mm MG 151. Although the MK 108 was much more destructive and had only a marginally lower rate of fire than the MG 151, its significantly lower muzzle velocity made it mainly useful against heavy bombers. Unfortunately, since PzC does not make a difference between figher and bomber targets as both count as air units this cannot be simulated adequately. The solution would be to have fighter and bomber attack instead of the air attack stat.

In addition to the main sub-types, it might also be useful to add some bomber destroyer variants as in many cases Bf 109 (and Fw 190) fighters were equipped with additional cannons (or rockets) under their wings for extra firepower - at the cost of speed and maneuverability. So these heavy bomber destroyer fighters could have higher AA, but lower Ini and AD.

Re: Aircrafts

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:42 am
by JagdpanzerIV
Thx McGuba!

Would you by any chances, have done the same with the Fw 190 and many other aircrafts?

your explanations on the G variants make sense, what did you give for ammo, fuel, movement and ground defense ?

Thinking about the 'E' why such low initiative -7- vs the 'F' with -11- ?

Also i think we should have two F versions, the F-2 and the F-4 (20mm cannon and faster with new engine)

Re: Aircrafts

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:54 am
by JagdpanzerIV
looking here, https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Fw_190_A-4
i found out the FW190A-4 was the first version to see combat on the eastern front. the armament is MG FF/M x2 + MG 151/20 x2 + MG 17 x2, compared to the A-1 MG FF/M x2 + MG 17 x4.
So the A-1 should have around AA 16 and the A-4/5 around 20

the Fw190 A-2/3/4/5 seems to all have the same weaponry MG FF/M x2 + MG 151/20 x2 + MG 17 x2
The A-8 got MG 151/20 x4 + MG131 x2 (AA+-22)
the D-9 was actually a fighter/bomber carrying a 500kg bomb under the fuselage or a mix of other payload, armament was MG 151/20 x2 + MG131 x2 + 500kg bomb (AA+-18)
https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Fw190D-9

the MG151/20 is a 20mm cannon

Re: Aircrafts

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:55 pm
by Yrfin
Don't trust "wiki" source:)

My Avia_Weapon.xls - digest from many books/internet.

Re: Aircrafts

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:44 pm
by JagdpanzerIV
from this source, http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/earlyjg51190s.htm

it appears the FW190A-3 was the first to see combat on the eastern front around 10ish September 1942,, as the A-4s were received only in February 1943.