Slitherine

If a general is attached in the impact phase does average quality supporting fire get a superior quality reroll ?
Page 99 says normal quality rerolls apply but is that for meant superior or elite troops?
The quality reroll section on page 24 says the general bonus applies in close combat which would suggest that impact phase support fire gets the bonus.
If that is so I'm reluctantly going to join the longbow express.

graym wrote:If a general is attached in the impact phase does average quality supporting fire get a superior quality reroll ?
Page 99 says normal quality rerolls apply but is that for meant superior or elite troops?
The quality reroll section on page 24 says the general bonus applies in close combat which would suggest that impact phase support fire gets the bonus.
If that is so I'm reluctantly going to join the longbow express.

Yes,

Support fire is part of the impact phase so the generals quality adjustment applies.

Thanks.

Whoa.

That's a subtlety that really makes a difference. I have got to remember this one

possum wrote:Whoa.

That's a subtlety that really makes a difference. I have got to remember this one

It surprised me - the key point is that close combat is defined in the glossary as combat in the impact / melee phase, so support shooting is close combat.

sagji wrote:

possum wrote:Whoa.

That's a subtlety that really makes a difference. I have got to remember this one

It surprised me - the key point is that close combat is defined in the glossary as combat in the impact / melee phase, so support shooting is close combat.

Exactly, it just uses shooting POAs.

Let me be sure I'm clear here, is this relevant only to mixed BG's?

Mixed BGs and BGs entirely of MF Bow or Crossbow as these can have support shooting in the Impact phase from their 2nd rank.

And it applies to MF longbows too!

Pete

Oops, missed them

I do hope my usual opponents read this one. I'll be remembering to mention the 2nd rank in shooters BGs. NONE of us have mentioned wondering if it would be a factor. We have mentioned missing shooting at incoming chargers. NO thought to our 2nd ranks of bows in all bows/crossbow/etc formations shooting in support in an impact!?

What the heck, we ARE old farts.

There is a nice side effect with the second rank shooting. When bow armed troops with equal melee capabilites face each other, the best tactic is to shoot it out. The extra dice for the rear rank that those receiving the charge get at impact is a major factor in discouraging a charge. It feels right that archers attempt to settle the matter by shooting rather than rushing in to hand to hand combat.

Hammy [/quote]Support fire is part of the impact phase so the generals quality adjustment applies.[quote]

I'd initially read this the other way. And since I use Early Persians a lot I read it really carefully.

I've now re-read it and I have to say the rule is clear as mud. The problem is the the glossary says (paraphrase) that close combat is impact/melee ecept support shooting uses shooting rules for number of dice. The general in combat bit says (via battle groups section) that general helps hand to hand rerolls. But then you go and read the results tables. There's one for hand to hand and one for shooting.

So you could read all that as Hammy does (but it doesn't actually say that the important part is whether it's in the impact phase Hammy). Or you could read it as "it uses shooting dice and shooting results table as oppesed to hand to hand" so doesn't get the general bonus.

Hammy - is it that you've read the rules and come to that conclusion or have you got thwe from one of the muppetumvirate?

Graham

grahambriggs wrote:So you could read all that as Hammy does (but it doesn't actually say that the important part is whether it's in the impact phase Hammy). Or you could read it as "it uses shooting dice and shooting results table as oppesed to hand to hand" so doesn't get the general bonus.

Hammy - is it that you've read the rules and come to that conclusion or have you got thwe from one of the muppetumvirate?

Good question. I have always played it that way and have not specifically studied the final version of the rules in respect to this point.

It could be that it was clearer in an earlier version, it could be that I just made an assumption.

I am happy to dig into this one and if required see about an FAQ entry.

The way I justify the general helping out with shooting at impact is along the lines of the general getting the troops to perhaps hold fire just that little bit longer before loosing a more effective volley.

Hammy - is it that you've read the rules and come to that conclusion or have you got thwe from one of the muppetumvirate?

Perhaps you could ask them yourself on Thursday Graham and let the rest of us know

I remember discussing this issue before on this group. The conclusion was definitely that the shooters get the effect of the general. I can't remember which author contributed.

The intention is that the commander's effect on "to hit" re-rolls should apply to support shooting in the impact phase. Perhaps an addition to the FAQ is needed.

Must admit I found working it out from the rules to be clear enough.

So if the Bow in the second rank are superior to start with, does the leader bump them up to the Elite re-roll bonus?

possum wrote:So if the Bow in the second rank are superior to start with, does the leader bump them up to the Elite re-roll bonus?

Yup