Slitherine

Considering the original Field of Glory, I have to imagine that we will get two main types of hoplite in Immortal Fire:

Heavily-armoured early hoplites attached to army lists from 5th c. and earlier
Medium-armoured later hoplites (as we see in our current version of the game) attached to army lists from late 5th century and beyond.

In game mechanics, at least in the original FOG, the first type was far superior and almost always preferable. I can't think of any time when later-era hoplites were the better choice, except in the sense that they had a slightly lower cost, and in the sense that armour doesn't matter if you are fighting against heavy weapons.

Anyway, according to people like Xenophon, younger, lighter-armoured hoplite soldiers practiced a strategy of charging out of formation. The people who engaged in this we call ekdromoi. As the name suggests, they would leave the formation and quickly rush forward, either proactively to seize important defensive points (such as a hill top), or to counter skirmishers and perhaps get them out of the way so that the unit could move forward. It didn't always work, but at any rate it was a strategy known to be employed by Spartans and others (such as the mercenary force accompanied by Xenophon).

So, any chance of the later-era hoplites having their own strengths, such as improved movement or anti-skirmisher function, or are they doomed to be weaker versions of the more traditional, heavily-armoured hoplite?

It is hard to model Ekdromoi because they were not discrete units but only part of a unit, and the rest of the unit would operate as normal hoplites all of the time (as would the Ekdromoi most of the time).

Certainly I don't think this is enough to give later hoplites improved movement.

Some sort of anti-skirmisher function would be interesting, but I am not sure how we could implement it. I guess the obvious way would be to make the units always go up on their random movement score for pursuing evaders - but then light javelinmen would never escape. Also the whole unit would go forward which probably does not get the right effect.

We are already testing a change where skirmishers may take casualties even when the unit successfully evades, depending on how nearly they were caught. I guess something could be done to increase those casualties for units with ekdromoi.

But really, this is somewhat below the representational level of the game, and surely later hoplites were not the only historical units to use such tactics, so a large can of worms would be opened.

We are open to suggestions for future development of the game - but they have to be in keeping with the overall level of representation of the game - which does not go into fine details of sub-unit tactics.

rbodleyscott wrote:It is hard to model Ekdromoi because they were not discrete units but only part of a unit, and the rest of the unit would operate as normal hoplites all of the time (as would the Ekdromoi most of the time).

Certainly I don't think this is enough to give later hoplites improved movement.

Some sort of anti-skirmisher function would be interesting, but I am not sure how we could implement it. I guess the obvious way would be to make the units always go up on their random movement score for pursuing evaders - but then light javelinmen would never escape. Also the whole unit would go forward which probably does not get the right effect.

We are already testing a change where skirmishers may take casualties even when the unit successfully evades, depending on how nearly they were caught. I guess something could be done to increase those casualties for units with ekdromoi.

But really, this is somewhat below the representational level of the game, and surely later hoplites were not the only historical units to use such tactics, so a large can of worms would be opened.

We are open to suggestions for future development of the game - but they have to be in keeping with the overall level of representation of the game - which does not go into fine details of sub-unit tactics.

In terms of improved movement, I was thinking of an improved ability to seize a particular location. Such as a bonus if the final square is the top of a hill. However, I imagine that might be troublesome to program, and at any rate it sounds like it's been decided against.

I like your ideas about the skirmishers taking damage even when they successfully evade. I would also suggest, how about making the skirmishers run farther than usual? The Ekdromoi were also used to clear the way for units, so it would make sense if the skirmishers ran a greater distance than usual.

I also noticed that a lot of the fighting in the Anabasis is on difficult terrain, like a hillside. FOG 1 and 2 has a sharp divide between HF and MF, so I don't know to what extent it's possible, but maybe some sort of bonus for fighting on poor terrain? Or maybe an option for MF hoplites in the later army lists, given that they were seemingly deployed that way in the Anabasis. Alexander presumably has MF hypaspists.

These sort of abstractions are accepted for Romans, so they should be accepted for Hellenes. I have often read that Romans get their "superior" or "elite" status to reflect their volley of javelins, or their particular maneuverability/adaptability.