Slitherine

Ho' all!

Some inane questions came up the other night in our learning group and I've been pouring through the rulebook trying to find answers with no luck. So here goes, and apologies if these are obvious or we're just numbskulls....

1) A battlegroup of knights breaks a bg of dismounted men at arms... the men at arms rout. They outrun the knights, breaking off contact. I know that the routers (men at arms) keep running, during the JAP, but how far each time. Do they run their normal movement or do they make a VMD roll each turn?

2) In the above situation, the knights, no longer pursuing, want to wheel 90 degrees and make a simple advance. The knights in question are undrilled so this requires a CMT. Assuming success, what to do if the wheel takes the knights (former pursuers) into base to base contact with the men at arms (formerly the routers)?

3) Can a battlegroup that only fights in a melee as an overlap be targetted for shooting?

Thanks for humoring a handful of beginners!

Rattle

1. Normal move towards own base line
2. Stop at the point of contact wait 'til the routers move away in the next JAP, you can shift for friends, you can shift for En if routing or evading
3. Any Battle Group fighting in melee can be targeted providing there is a base not touching enemy or providing dice that can be a target. (at an extra minus poa)

I may have 2 wrong 'cos I haven't got my rules.

Rattleshirt wrote:Ho' all!

Some inane questions came up the other night in our learning group and I've been pouring through the rulebook trying to find answers with no luck. So here goes, and apologies if these are obvious or we're just numbskulls....

1) A battlegroup of knights breaks a bg of dismounted men at arms... the men at arms rout. They outrun the knights, breaking off contact. I know that the routers (men at arms) keep running, during the JAP, but how far each time. Do they run their normal movement or do they make a VMD roll each turn?

Rattle

No VMD once contact is broken with persuers

Rattleshirt wrote: 2) In the above situation, the knights, no longer pursuing, want to wheel 90 degrees and make a simple advance. The knights in question are undrilled so this requires a CMT. Assuming success, what to do if the wheel takes the knights (former pursuers) into base to base contact with the men at arms (formerly the routers)?

Rattle

They can wheel 90 and make a simple advance, if a CMT is passed (table on p.43). They have to "Charge" the routers to enter combat with them

Rattleshirt wrote:
3) Can a battlegroup that only fights in a melee as an overlap be targetted for shooting?

Thanks for humoring a handful of beginners!

Rattle

Yes and the target is not in melee as it is only fighting as an overlap (See table on p.95, under "any" 2nd from bottom)



Spike[/quote]

Spike wrote:

Rattleshirt wrote: 2) In the above situation, the knights, no longer pursuing, want to wheel 90 degrees and make a simple advance. The knights in question are undrilled so this requires a CMT. Assuming success, what to do if the wheel takes the knights (former pursuers) into base to base contact with the men at arms (formerly the routers)?

Rattle

They can't turn 90 and maker a simple advance. (See the last part of the table on p.43) as they are undrilled. If you pass the CMT they may turn 90 only.

Spike, RTFQ

The question is can the knights WHEEL 90 degrees.

The answer is that the knights can wheel up to the point where they would contact the routers. They have to stop just short of the routers and wait for them to continue on their merry way. In practice a BG of knights can't wheel 90 degrees unless it is in a single column as a 90 degree wheel for even a 2 base wide BG is more than their maximum move anyway.

hammy wrote:

Spike wrote:

Rattleshirt wrote: 2) In the above situation, the knights, no longer pursuing, want to wheel 90 degrees and make a simple advance. The knights in question are undrilled so this requires a CMT. Assuming success, what to do if the wheel takes the knights (former pursuers) into base to base contact with the men at arms (formerly the routers)?

Rattle

They can't turn 90 and maker a simple advance. (See the last part of the table on p.43) as they are undrilled. If you pass the CMT they may turn 90 only.

Spike, RTFQ

The question is can the knights WHEEL 90 degrees.


The answer is that the knights can wheel up to the point where they would contact the routers. They have to stop just short of the routers and wait for them to continue on their merry way. In practice a BG of knights can't wheel 90 degrees unless it is in a single column as a 90 degree wheel for even a 2 base wide BG is more than their maximum move anyway.

I did and got confused reading the rules and typing
I corrected it almost instantaneously
What I have just realised is you cant "Move" in to contact with routers but you have to charge!

on this message I HATE THE QUOTES HTML THING

sorry rant off

spike wrote:

hammy wrote:

Spike wrote: They can't turn 90 and maker a simple advance. (See the last part of the table on p.43) as they are undrilled. If you pass the CMT they may turn 90 only.

Spike, RTFQ

The question is can the knights WHEEL 90 degrees.


The answer is that the knights can wheel up to the point where they would contact the routers. They have to stop just short of the routers and wait for them to continue on their merry way. In practice a BG of knights can't wheel 90 degrees unless it is in a single column as a 90 degree wheel for even a 2 base wide BG is more than their maximum move anyway.

I did and got confused reading the rules and typing
I corrected it almost instantaneously
What I have just realised is you cant "Move" in to contact with routers but you have to chrge!

OK, how's this for a plan.

You fix your answer and then I will delete the confusing replies we have just gone through.

Where my answers OK sir.

I didn't realise we were being marked

philqw78 wrote:Where my answers OK sir.

I didn't realise we were being marked

Almost, you can't move into contact with a BG other than as an overlap so your "wheel until you hit the routers" is roughly 1 nanotodger too far. A-

Rattleshirt needs to distinguish between a wheel and a turn

Wheel = the BG rotates about one of its front corners as a rigid block

Wheels are included in the "Advances" and "Double Wheels" sections of the movement table. There is no such move as "Wheel 90 degrees followed by a simple advance". An advance may include a wheel, which counts towards the distance moved, and may be simple or complex.


Turn = each base individually turns and might move a bit to maintain contiguity. The final formation is specified in the rules section on turns.

Turns are in the movement table in the "Turns" section.

For "other undrilled", a turn 90 followed by a simple advance is impossible.

Yes and the target is not in melee as it is only fighting as an overlap (See table on p.95, under "any" 2nd from bottom)

You cannot target a base fighting as an overlap as per the following rule:
"• A base cannot be shot at if it is in a position to fight as a 1st or 2nd rank or overlap in melee this turn."

Other bases of the BG fighting as an overlap (i.e. the ones not getting combat dice) can be targeted at a -POA

Thanks all!

Number one was cleared up easily enough.
For #2, the intent was to advance the knights with a wheel... There was only 2 MU clearance between the routers and the knights at the time, so they would've had to stop pretty short. Sorry for the confusion my "90 degree" verbage brought about... using the wrong words in an attempt to convince you that I knew what I was doing.

For #3, I understand that the base fighting as an overlap could not be targetted whereas the rest of the BG could be. However, the reference for the POAs on page 95 confuses me.

It states, under the "any" part, "at a battle group which is partly in close combat OTHER THAN only as an overlap". The battle group in question was partly in close combat ONLY as an overlap. So does this apply? The wording confuses me.

In any case, thanks for all replies folks!

Rattle

Rattleshirt wrote:For #3, I understand that the base fighting as an overlap could not be targetted whereas the rest of the BG could be. However, the reference for the POAs on page 95 confuses me.

It states, under the "any" part, "at a battle group which is partly in close combat OTHER THAN only as an overlap". The battle group in question was partly in close combat ONLY as an overlap. So does this apply? The wording confuses me.

Rattle

If no bases are in close combat: does not apply
If at least one base is in cose combat as an overlap AND no bases are in close combat not as an overlap: does not apply
If at least one base is in close combat not as an overlap: does apply

If at least one base is in cose combat as an overlap AND no bases are in close combat not as an overlap: does not apply

A HA! Then the battlegroup in question could be targetted with no - POAs. Thanks much! (right?)

Rattle