Slitherine

German submarine type VII has 5 defence against Torpedos, type IX has 5 defence against ships. Are there other advantages/disadvantages because type VII costs 10 RPs more? Is 5 defence against torpedos worth the 10 RPs?

figaro wrote:German submarine type VII has 5 defence against Torpedos, type IX has 5 defence against ships. Are there other advantages/disadvantages because type VII costs 10 RPs more? Is 5 defence against torpedos worth the 10 RPs?

Cool nickname
Are you a Mozart fan?

According to me, there are no significant differences between the two types.
I bought cheaper.

The defense-stats of the Type VII are buggy. Submerged submarines should normally have no torpedo defense, as you can't target them with torpedoes anyway. You can better see this on an Excel sheet that the numbers of the VII somehow got pushed to the right while editing.
Even with these buggy stats, I wouldn't leave a port without a good nav defense as this is also the defense against depth charges. No-entry = 0 defense. I'm surprised that the XXI received such terrible nav defense as being the best submarine of the war, but it's not useable in KM anyway.

@Horst: Man, you do plow through the bowels of OoB. Another bug that should be fixed soon.

kondi754 wrote:

figaro wrote:German submarine type VII has 5 defence against Torpedos, type IX has 5 defence against ships. Are there other advantages/disadvantages because type VII costs 10 RPs more? Is 5 defence against torpedos worth the 10 RPs?

Cool nickname
Are you a Mozart fan?

According to me, there are no significant differences between the two types.
I bought cheaper.

Was my nickname since School days, because it sounds similar to my surname. But I'm Mozart Fan too, yes. Many THX for the replies. I think I will go for the type IX.

Yes, this is confusing (version 3.3.7). As implied by the model numbers, the Type IX was an advancement upon the Type VII. According to Wikipedia, the Type IX was a bigger sub, with one more torpedo tube than the Type VII (six vs. five), capable of carrying eight more torpedoes (22 vs 14), and a greater range (10,500 vs 8,500 nmi).

Yet, the Type IX is less expensive than the Type VII. And, as Horst says, there is a typo in the units.csv file. These Type VII naval defense values belong in the next column over.
This kind of thing has me looking at the units.csv file for the first time. Hmmm (I stroke my beard contemplatively). Can I fix this myself?

Still, this should be fixed for all users.

bru888 wrote:This kind of thing has me looking at the units.csv file for the first time. Hmmm (I stroke my beard contemplatively). Can I fix this myself?

Heh, pride goeth before a fall. Sure, I can fix the data in the file. It's the saving of the file back into the proper .csv format which is tricky. That not being done correctly means the game does not start. [Rename unitsOLD.csv back to units.csv, quick! ]

bru, better use a simple text-editor for few fixes like that.

Notepad ++ is a free, very good txt editor. Better, more clear display than the old notepad.

Yes, but unless I am mistaken, you cannot work in column mode with Notepad++. This means you would need to know that the 53rd semicolon begins the naval defense field and the 54th semicolon is the torpedo defense field, then you would count semicolons very carefully, correct? Because if you cannot load units.csv into an Excel file for easy cell location and editing, and be able to save it back into the exact CSV format for the game to recognize, you are faced with some very tedious editing with Notepad++.
By the way, I realized why editing in Excel and saving it as a CSV file did not work. Excel means CSV literally, as in comma-delimited. The units.csv file is delimited by semicolons. There may be other difficulties which are created when Excel imports units.csv using its Text Import Wizard and then saves it as a text file again. Units.csv apparently has to remain exactly the way it was formatted for the game to use it.

If you work with a text-editor then it helps by having a look at the sheet in Excel which numbers could relate to which parameter. Fix the upper title-row in the Excel sheet to keep an overview.

If you have imported the original units.csv correctly by the Excel-assistant with semicolon and txt-format for columns, then you can save this as a default Excel sheet.
For the game, you need to save the sheet as file-type *.csv (comma-delimited). Check with a text-editor if the commas and semicolons are there. If yes then it should work.
Better keep the Excel-sheet as extra xls(x)-file, so you don’t need to repeat that annoying import-procedure.

Open Office (free) works fine with .csv files.
Much better than Excel for me.

Well, I finally got it fixed but I used CSVed (http://csved.sjfrancke.nl/index.html). Heh, its developer calls the program "easy and powerful." It's powerful alright but easy?!? My gosh.

I learned just enough to make the changes. I realigned the traits properly as shown below.
While I was at it, I raised the cost of the Type IX although there is no difference in capabilities between Types VII and IX. That is probably an oversight but I figure a Type IX should cost more than a Type VII, no? Below are the two subs, side by side. Note the new cost and the corrected defense ratings:
Guess what I did next? I put back the original units.csv file. Why?? Because I realized that this is an exercise in futility for me. I am not a modder, so I am not designing something that I am going to keep on the side.

I did this to fix an error but the fallacy of that is, everytime the OOB developers come out with a new patch, they are probably going to overwrite this file. I am going to want their changes of course but if they did not fix this particular error, what do I do then? Check each time there is a patch and fix it again?

No. The developers need to fix this for me and everybody, if they are going to do so. I will post a note in the Tech Support forum, calling their attention to this thread.

Bru, welcome to hard modding business!
When you have reached a point where you have basically fixed and changed anything yourself, adding a couple of new units with the next DLC isn’t that much work anymore.
Well, the smartest approach to modding is waiting for the last DLC- and patch-release before you start fixing/changing the game, but who has actually the patience to do that if it can take many years?

Horst wrote:Bru, welcome to hard modding business!
When you have reached a point where you have basically fixed and changed anything yourself, adding a couple of new units with the next DLC isn’t that much work anymore.
Well, the smartest approach to modding is waiting for the last DLC- and patch-release before you start fixing/changing the game, but who has actually the patience to do that if it can take many years?

You know, it's funny you said that. I have had it in the back of my mind that, if and when this franchise peters out, I will indeed go back and perfect all the flaws left in a final version to be kept in perpetuity. I may even try my hand at "hard modding." But, I figure that the best way to keep this franchise going is for us to point things out to the developers to be addressed so that new customers don't keep encountering the same issues.

Yep, unlike with other developer teams, you get sometimes confirmations about issues here, so you don't need to hope and wait forever for fixes.
The only disadvantage is though that the upcoming patch will be postponed the more issues are reported. Maybe we should do a break from reporting until the next patch.

Hey! I'm not as dumb as I look (sound?)! I predicted the "price" for the Type IX sub would be 90 if it was a more advanced model, and I was right! I also see why you will be willing to pay more for the Type IX when you compare its Naval Defense to the Type VII. One troubling aspect, though: These numbers have been reduced from 5 to 2 and 3. I wonder what effect that has in Kriegsmarine scenarios.