Slitherine

Big typo in the sceanario objectives. Apparently we must destroy 3 battleships, not 2 as stated? Cost me the mission not noticing

stecal wrote:Big typo in the sceanario objectives. Apparently we must destroy 3 battleships, not 2 as stated? Cost me the mission not noticing

Was having difficulties with this one too.
How did you get your ships in the Atlantic btw?
Where does the Atlantic begin in this scenario?

I works to decoy the battleships with one group, who get pounded, then sneak another group by along the western coast. You lose a lot of ships and subs. I ignored the secondary objectives as impossible. even so I had to cheat to turn 42 to get 4 off, then found out it was 3 battleships. Just dont seem to have the resources to do this mission as the departing ships cannot return.

Well twice now in a row I have sunk enough RN Battleships, even more than 3, but I cannot disengage my fleet and they just wear me down with a mix of ships and TBs. Compared to the surface ship those TBs pack a hard punch and AA is practically useless. I get 3 damage on a regular basis on moving heavy cruisers, that is on first approach. Compared to this my Uboots have been little pricks - 1-2 damage if lucky. Shipboard torpedoes, 2 if all is perfect.

Stecal, The key I found to this scenario is to keep your ships together. I only used the northern starting zone. I started deployment with 1BB and 1BC. I used them to engage the first group of CAs. I then reinforced with 2x CA and 1x CL. This group together took on the next group. Finally, I used my accumulated resource points to purchase and deploy a 2nd BB and deployed it with the my last DD and a Sub. Combining this group together makes a force that should be sufficient to take on the RN and still exit by turn 4 ships by turn 40. I also had 2 Arado Float plane scouts and a Condor to scout for RN task forces and pick off or advance damage some of the RN Ships. You should have enough time to fly out the Condor twice. I never did find the CV however. Yes, you will get pounded and I did loose 1Cl and 1DD but sank everything else. Use the JU88s to do some mining and use your accumulated non-core resource points to buy another fighter. The 2 you start can range out and take down the 2 required flying boats. (yes, it says 3 but the requirement is 2, another typo). The REAL irritating issue is that the mines are critical to getting the research points to be able to purchase a CV for the next battle.

Lot of typos in the Turn Overview. I will need to post about another one here in another thread.

As far as this one goes, some of the other posters offer solid advice. I beat this one on the first play through without losing anything although I had a bunch of stuff beat up. Some of it was dumb luck and unawareness on my part early, but it worked out.

First, you start out with a very limited amount of ships on the map and are given 3 areas to set up at. I picked A (closest to Germany) but headed NW towards B and then headed SW. Right after I had made the turn and had just started engaging the first line of RN warships, I got the second wave of ships and was able to place them at B, where they were able to help almost immediately. I was able to dispatch the first set of RN ships but had to reverse course towards the NE to allow my torpedoes to reload. After that, it was just moving SW and staying together for the most part. I avoided the CA's and planes to the NW in the Greenland-Iceland gap. The exit into the Atlantic is in the SW area of the map on the westernmost set of exits. One of the tricks is to read the requirements carefully. You can send destroyers, cruisers and/or BB's off. It doesn't say what shape they have to be in or how many of what you send. So the ships I moved off were damaged destroyers and a cruiser. It didn't matter at that point because the fighting was pretty much over. I never did see the carrier and I think it will be hard to nail because once the planes are shot down, it is likely leaving. Not sure if you could get a shot at it with a Condor or not, but that might be the way to go next time.

For the German force composition. I have a pair of Scharnhorst class BB's. I didn't buy a Bismark class because they are more expensive for not much difference in combat performance. Most importantly, they move at speed 3 instead of 4 and don't have torps. For all those reductions, the defense appears to be the same and Bismark has 1 more combat in each category of surface combat for secondaries. Not worth it. Speed means a lot in this game. At this point, I don't see myself buying a Bismark. The stats on these ships need some work imo. Bismark does bring better game to the primary with a range of 9 and 34-24 attack ratings vs Scharnhorst range 7 and 30-20. Defensive wise, Bismark should be better than Scharnhorst by a fair amount, but it isn't.

I am not sure I am a real fan of using any of the German BB's and the reason is all have the "limited replacements" tag. The cruisers do not and it makes them far easier to repair at sea. The cruisers are also very effective against their counter parts and especially destroyers. As far as enemy battleships, I have taken to using piles of torpedoes against them and it has been somewhat effective. Since I didn't get the carrier and there have been some issues getting the correct points in some of the scenarios, I am short to get the German carrier, but I have upgraded torpedoes, so we shall see how it goes in the Operation Torch scenario.

Actually, the naval defense value of the Scharnhorst class BattleCruisers (BC) is a detail the devs did get right. Unlike all other battlecruisers that have BB Armament and sacrificed armor protection for higher speed, the Scharnhorsts had a belt armor that was as thick (Conway lists it as thicker) than the Bismarks but were only armed with 11" guns due to the unavailability of the twin 15" Turrets found on the Bismarcks when they were constructed. The substituted the available triple 11" turrents as found on the Scheer class pocket battleships with intention of replacing them with 3 twin 15" mounts when they became available. Due to the start of WW2 and the fall from favor of the KM Surface Fleet, this never happened. This turned fatal for the Scharnhorst when she ran afoul of the RN Duke of York (KGV Class) at the Battle of the North Cape.

Actually, that would make a nice Scharnhorst Upgrade...

Well guess my main problem was one of timing, going on full attack too soon, with too few ships and later not going to the exit points in time.

Finally finished Surface Raiders after my 6th go.

It cost me two Bismarck class BB and one destroyer, but two Hipper class CA and two destroyers made it to the Atlantic exits!

Started with a new BIsmarck class, core Hipper class and Ar196 at point C took out the 2 heavy cruisers N of Iceland.
One more core CA and support ship, later adding new BIsmarck and finally another support, three core DD and two subs - but two DD and one sub were still in need of MAJOR repair, so I kept all the DD and a single sub north. I forget mention my new Fw200 Condor


Too be honest I made a mistake and kept my DD too long up north, also I was not aggressive enough with the Fw200.
Splitting my force was a dumb, as my two BB and two CA were eventually sandwiched between RN battleships and cruisers in the east and a destroyer flotilla joined by convoy escorts from the west. Guess up to 8 destroyers. To make matters worse two Swordfish TB.

It was the destroyers and TB that hit my BBs badly with torpedoes, the RN BB and CA doing extra damage from range.
My first BB sank pretty quick after I had achieved the mission goal and turned for the exit. My DD force finally came in from the north and hit their CA and DD hard. I turned my CAs back into the fight and we sank a lot of them, but they kept getting hits on my one remaining BB.

Lost a brave DD that put torpedoes in one of the last RN CA in the area, but it was not enough as my last BB blew up at least two turns away from the exit. Time to exit with my two remaining DD and then a turn later my two CA exited, but not before my Condor finished off another DD and CA from our damaged in the naval battle.

Sank 3 BB and damaged a 4th, lost count of the cruisers (6?) and destroyers (+6), but it was a slaughter.
Guess it is a phyrric victory for the Kriegsmarine.

It is a fun scenario once you get a better understanding of the AI routines. Guess if you go straight from Pacific to Kriegsmarine it is easier, for me it was some time ago and I am relearning the ropes.

Uboot is next to worthless though.

Took a peek at the next scenario, pfftt let see what that brings