Slitherine

I set up some custom MP scenarios as a public challenges two or three weeks ago. The chosen scenarios were from all available war theatres. So I waitted. Only one player joined since that time and then he resigned in the very first turn.

I am asking what´s happening with the community. We have excellent scenarios available thanks to Erik and nobody wants to play them (?). Really?

LynxCom wrote:I set up some custom MP scenarios as a public challenges two or three weeks ago. The chosen scenarios were from all available war theatres. So I waitted. Only one player joined since that time and then he resigned in the very first turn.

I am asking what´s happening with the community. We have excellent scenarios available thanks to Erik and nobody wants to play them (?). Really?

Sorry, but multiplayer takes a lot of time. You cant just drop a game for a few weeks as in singleplayer, that would be rude to your adversary.
I mean, I can pop in here and write a few lines and then get back to work. Thats at least for me. Im guessing most of us around here have jobs, thats why.

If you feel like helping the community, try Eriks Blitzkrieg Campaigns or sign up for the Kriegsmarine beta.

Yes, but he has a point, Andy, and it's one that I have made before. Slitherine/Artistocrats need to do everything they can to build up traffic in these forums. In this forum, specifically. My two main gaming interests these days are Out of the Park Baseball and Order of Battle (the similarity of those names and abbreviations, OOTPB and OOB, throw me once in a while). I go back and forth between forums, and it's like going from Midtown Manhattan to Dry Gulch, Wyoming. Over there, it's all bustle and commotion. Here, it's tumbleweed, creaking signs, and whistling wind.

It’s disappointing that the PC2 announcement topic with nothing really to offer yet has already more views compared to the whole front-page topics of the main forum here.
04/04 will hopefully change something with Kriegsmarine, but I can still live with 05/05 too.

bru888 wrote:Yes, but he has a point, Andy, and it's one that I have made before. Slitherine/Artistocrats need to do everything they can to build up traffic in these forums. In this forum, specifically. My two main gaming interests these days are Out of the Park Baseball and Order of Battle (the similarity of those names and abbreviations, OOTPB and OOB, throw me once in a while). I go back and forth between forums, and it's like going from Midtown Manhattan to Dry Gulch, Wyoming. Over there, it's all bustle and commotion. Here, it's tumbleweed, creaking signs, and whistling wind.

Okay, those are probably the most American gaming interests possible. Nice. (I could go for "public transport manager - keep ze buses and trains on time". These actually exist for a veeery teutonic clientele... )

Stupid jokes aside, this is basic economics. People play Panzercorps in Multiplayer because the community is large and stay there because it is large and proposed games are matched easily and timely. (Same way the dollar stays the world's dominant currency or facebook most people's primary social media platform. Its there, its large, everywhere else is tumbleweed country. Path dependency.) Economics calls this network externalities. OoB does not stand a chance here, but obviously has carved out a single player niche. Otherwise, they would not produce DLCs because they wouldnt sell enough units to match expenses. I really dont know how the devs or Slitherine can jack up traffic for these forums except crank out good content.

@Horst: 04/04 or 05/05 are possible release dates for Kriegsmarine, right?

I don't know if things go well in the Kriegsmarine beta. 04/04 is maybe already too early but still has the best chance according to the past dates:

Order of Battle: 04.04.2015
The Battle of Britain: 09.09.2015
Morning Sun: 01.01.2016
US. Marines: 04.04.2016
Winter War: 07.07.2016
Blitzkrieg: 11.11.2016

Andy2012 wrote: Sorry, but multiplayer takes a lot of time. You cant just drop a game for a few weeks as in singleplayer, that would be rude to your adversary.
I mean, I can pop in here and write a few lines and then get back to work. Thats at least for me. Im guessing most of us around here have jobs, thats why.

Andy, I know it takes a lot of time and I know that people have jobs, duties, other interests. You maybe suprise - I have them too.

But back to the point. What I want to tell is not that the OOB MP scene is not enough populated. It is alive and populated somehow. The point is every time I check the MP lobby there´s some MP matches/challenges with the same basic maps (Artic Fox, Dubno, the Fork, Bootcamp). Players don´t play custom MP scenarios. I am curious why and it´s a mystery for me. Especially when there´s lot of amazing scenarios by Erik.

Is it because of a lack of patience in long-term operations? Or a lack of courage to play "bigger" maps in "unbalanced" conditions? I don´t know. Sorry, but lack of time is not reason here, because playing one turn takes max. 10-15 mins and you are not forced to play your turn every day.

Andy2012 wrote:I really dont know how the devs or Slitherine can jack up traffic for these forums except crank out good content.

From your typing fingers to God's divine developer inspiration! Or something like that.

You probably have a sense of why I say these things. It's because I do care for this game and I want it to do well. I am rooting for it.

The devs of course needs to crank out quality content. That's the most important task, I think.

Every new campaign needs to add more units, it is especially important to flesh out the missing units for major factions like Britain, Soviet and Italy.
I also think the minor factions could use some additional basic units like trucks...

The devs need to implement an intuitive graphic campaign editor. There are too many niggles with the current txt-file approach and too easy to mkae stupid mistakes.
A proper manual for the editor is also long due.

Creating mods is too convoluted and error-prone. A more streamlined way of handling mods elements along with allowing the modders to use elements in the resource file is needed.
One example; a modder should only need to place a units.csv file with modded units only. The game should first load the official units.csv file, then load the modded one and add units or replace those using the same 'serial' number.

Custom scenarios and campaigns really need an official easy way for download and installment. I think many players not too familiar with handling the PC (or Mac) never even try out a custom scenario or campaign.
Why not use the 'crate' option on the main menu to allow player to download user stuff from the stickies in the scenario forum.
I know some of us tend to update stuff too often, but players would at least have an easy fool-proof way to download and install custom stuff.

Thanks for listening

@LynxCom: I'm interested in trying multi-player. I haven't played the Norway solitaire or multi-player scenario yet. Do you recommend that I try it solitaire before accepting your challenge?

Erik wrote:A proper manual for the editor is also long due.

I told one of the developers directly, and I posted to this effect, that they were welcome to take my manual and use it as a start. I know it's not comprehensive, but it would get them going, I believe. No reply.

The offer still stands but now they would have to PM me for the Word version because I went ahead and posted it as a PDF in the Design & Modding Guides thread in the Scenario Design forum. I'm usually rather humble but, in my opinion, it's good enough to see the light of day and help others get started with designing their own scenarios.

See, that's what I am talking about. You would think that they would want that and put in the effort to see it done. That's what builds a following! Instead, silence. No reply.

Erik wrote:Why not use the 'crate' option on the main menu . . .

And that's another darned thing, now that I am on a roll here.

You open the current version of this game (2.9.9), click on the Online News envelope, and instead of talking about the upcoming Kriegsmarine, it announces . . . Blitzkrieg and Patch 2.9.6!

The Crate button still offers the same Battle of Britain mod from - what, a year and a half ago? - and some of your well-done but now ancient scenarios. Why not offer more here, even if it's just user-created stuff? Some of it is really good (yours, of course, and, ahem, Oahu Invasion). But no, nothing new, month after month after month.

It's this apparent lack of, shall I say it, developer initiative and interaction with their constituency that sets off alarm bells. That's what I think is happening, or not happening, with the Community. There's not enough excitement here to build a Community.

@bru: I think most of this boils down to "small team, prioritise efforts, make money to meet financial goals". There is just no time to coddle everybody.
I use the steam version and they have regular announcements for stuff (livestreams etc) there.
However, OoB has gameplay innovations and fancy graphics over Panzercorps. With Panzercorps 2 coming up, that advantage could fizzle away. Lets see how they react to that.

Custom scenarios and campaigns really need an official easy way for download and installment. I think many players not too familiar with handling the PC (or Mac) never even try out a custom scenario or campaign

This is so true. I work with PC's so I have no problem. But my friend is PC illiterate. So as yet no custom games for us. And we are both salivating about the Pacific Carrier games, Coral Sea, Eastern Solomons etc. Hopefully soon.

Another problem is the rulebook. It's one of the worst I have encountered. It lacks completely any detail as to how things are done. Launching Torpedoes from aircraft for example. The only way to find out is through trial and error. Many other things are also left unexplained. I am still groping around in the dark on a lot of stuff.

Yeah, I really hope that once they are kind of done with adding tons and tons of units, the devs can focus on these issues.

I’m afraid OOB still won’t offer European 44-45 units yet until PC2 is out, but oh please defeat my pessimism!

Horst wrote:I’m afraid OOB still won’t offer European 44-45 units yet until PC2 is out, but oh please defeat my pessimism!

Yeah, Panzercorps 2 has a large community, established brand name and apparently more resources in the dev team than OoB (guessing). Dont want to sound fatalistic, but this could knock out this franchise. But lets wait and see what content they come up with - both for Panzercorps 2 and for OoB. Blitzkrieg is pretty good, but OoB might be coming into its own too late. I mean, I could like and play both. But I am not sure the market segment is large enough to support both.

And that is why I have been trying, beyond my comfort zone, to get my points across as ranted above.

As soon as I saw the announcement for PC2, I went "uh-oh." You got a handful of regulars here and that is it. As you alluded just now, some may weigh anchor and sail over there. Given what we have talked about in this thread, it seems quite likely. That will be an indication of what OOB's customer base will do.

Then, as I have seen in my gaming experience, you will notice time going by and something like Kriegsmarine never being released. Sometime after that, the forum itself disappears.

Are the Artistocrats going to fight for survival? Then it is to be hoped that they are reading this thread.

What will be, will be.

I can’t say anything about multiplayer, but something about single-player content what PC and OOB offered so far. Here's a comparison of available SP scenarios to play:

PC-Wehrmacht: 40 (07/11: already offered the most important units from 39-45 for most nations; not to forget winter and mud terrain together with a useful weather system)
DLC 39: 14 (11/11)
DLC 40: 14 (11/11)
DLC 41: 15 (12/11)
DLC 42E: 15 (03/12)
DLC 43E: 15 (04/12)
DLC 44E: 19 (04/12)
DLC 45E: 15 (05/12)
Afrika Korps: 24 (08/12: provided the desert war theatre incl. camo as first addon which already offered fans the possibility to create all kind of Euro-Africa-US scenarios throughout the war after one year of development)
DLC 42-43W: 14 (10/12)
DLC 44W: 18 (12/12)
DLC 45W: 18 (02/13)
Allied Corps: 30 (07/13)
Sea Lion: 30 (11/15: nikivdd had already offered uncountable freely available campaigns and scenarios before)
Soviet Corps: 26 (02/16, added at least a handful Asian units almost 5 years after main game)
US Corps 42-45: 16+16+18 (05/16)

OOB: Pacific: 12 + 12 (04/15)
Battle of Britain: 1 (09/15, free)
Morning Sun: 12 (01/16)
US Marines: 11 (04/16)
Winter War: 13 (07/16: offers finally the important winter terrain and starts with few Euro units)
Blitzkrieg: 12 (11/16)

Purely seen from time-frame in 2 years of development, we currently have 73 official OOB scenarios versus 221 official PC scenarios. Note that not all PC scenarios are unique though and rather variations of some.

This should make it already clear how much more entertainment the PC series has offered so far. People already had the full grand campaign with units from 39-45 to play at this time; not to mention all the custom content.