Slitherine

Ok I must be Nuts to attempt this but I am going to see how far I can go with playing at this level as I will not reload days or battles but accept the good rolls with the bad.
I however will restart scenarios and will disclose when I do to let you know how many times I needed to try any particular scenarios.

I will stick to my standard day by day playthrough unless there is a lot of requests for the new Guderian type style. I have to say playing with an enemy that starts off with all units with 5 additional units Strength is every daunting and makes you change up your tactics quite a bit. My strategy is still heavy on arty but find it necessary to be more necessary to be able to have more ammo a more diverse battle group than I have with my Guderian playthrough. I think in the end it will help me build up a strong and diverse force to take in the East but I am certain I will be losing a lot more units than I have been used to losing as they are fielding most units at 15 strength and other units even higher.
Just Crazy!

With that said since I am taking a bit of a reprieve from my 45 Campaign I have to say I love the Early War stuff less units, more creative layouts and a lot quicker play time versus those massive units and massive scenarios at the end. I always like getting started with a game, where as finishing becomes almost anti climactic. Do not get me wrong Berlin 45 was amazing, it was just draining as it should be. Playing at this level I am not even sure I will be able to reach Berlin, but I will try.

Let's see how I did with Poznan at this level.

First off this was my 3rd try as I needed to change up the units I used and the way I handled the Day 3 counter attack.

Day 1 Sunny
Destroyed PzL-P.116 and Cavalry.
Bought an additional Bf-109E and 3 10.5cm arty's with trucks.
Day 1 ai CA: Nothing

Day 2 Sunny
Seized airfield (10,4)
Destroyed nothing as their unit count is just too high for me to take it out completely.
Here comes Recon Rudel who becomes critical in your assault.
Day 2 ai CA: Nothing

Day 3 Sunny
Seized airfield (8,6) so that means I am pressuring Nowy Tomysl.
Destroyed nothing again still just trying to bring down more units.
Bought 2 Reg Reps for Pz1a and Wehrmacht Inf.
Day 3 ai CA:
Bomber and Inf hit AT in truck guarded by arty and fighter and yet the enemy still did -8 damage to me.

Day 4 Sunny
Pressuring Rail Station.
Destroyed 40mm AA and Cavalry.
Bought 1 reg rep for Gerbisjager and 8 reg reps for 3.7 cm Pak.
Day 4 ai CA: Nothing

Day 5 Sunny
Seized Rail Station
Destroyed Polish Inf.
Day 5 ai CA:
Wojceik's TKS seized airfield (10,4)

Day 6 Sunny
Finally destroyed the last PzL-P.116. Much harder to take down when they start with 15 str, but at least they stayed on the airfield to keep me taking more and more off of their unit while building up experience and kill counts for my Fighters.
Bought 4 reg reps for Werhmacht.
Day 6 ai CA
Bomber hit my Recon -3 me.

Day 7 Sunny
Pressuring Ostrow Wiekopolski and Kalisz as well as seized Nowy Tomysl.
Day 7 ai CA: Nothing

Day 8 Cloudy:
Seized airfield (23,12) and Ostrow Wiekopolski .
Destroyed AT and Bomber. Now I rule the skies.
Bought 3 reg reps for recon.
Day 8 ai CA:
Cavalry seized Nowy Tomysl and hit my arty guarded by arty -3 me, and AA hit fighter -3 me.

Day 9 Sunny:
Retook Nowy Tomysl.
Destroyed 40mm AA and Cavalry.
Bought 3 reg reps for arty and 1 for Pz1a.
Day 9 ai CA: Nothing

Day 10 Sunny
Seized Polish Checkpoint (11,9) and pressuring Konin.
Day 10 ai CA:
AA hit Recon Rudel -2 me; arty hit Pz1a -2 me; Wojceik's TKS hit Pz1a -2 them -1 me.

Day 11 Sunny
Seized Airfield (10,4)
Destroyed Wojceik's TKS and Polish inf.
Day 11 ai CA:
Arty hit aux Pz2c -2.

Day 12 Sunny
Destroyed Polish Inf.
Day 12 ai CA: Nothing.

Day 13 Cloudy
Seized airfield (13,9) and Wrzesnia and Kalisz.
Destroyed 40mm AA and 75mm arty and bought 4 reg reps for aux Pz2c to help with final assault.
Day 13 ai CA:
TKS hit Pz1a -1 me -2 them.

Day 14 Sunny
Seized Airfield (19,1) and Konin.
Destroyed TKS and Polish Inf.

I was able to take everything except Poznan itself and it's airfield.
This level is going to be tough and quite the experience builder as all of my units except my 3.7cm pak have at least 1 star of experience, including Recon Rudel, I even have 1 arty with 213 experience after the first scenario.

Marginal Victory with 1195 left in prestige.

In looking at what was waiting for me around Poznan I do not see how anyone can get a decisive Victory at this level on this scenario. Poznan was surrounded by 3 15 str AT's, 1 15 Str AA, 1 15 Str Inf, and 2 15 Str 105mm arty's.

Next time will be Danzig North which will be a Blind as I have never received a Marginal Victory on this scenario.
Starting with 1245.

goose_2,
I'm thinking that the Manstein level looks to be the most difficult, not the Rommel level. I did look at the setup of I think the second scenario in this campaign and noticed Polish infantry units were mostly 5 pointers. So on Manstein 5 becomes 15 instead of just adding 5? Just think of the prestige addition the AI gets with these pumped up units. Although you make a good point about gaining lots of experience from getting to kill off so many points.

Hmm, i would disagree, although each difficulty poses a different kind of challenge, i would think that either Rommel or Guderian would pose the biggest challenge overall, and Manstein in 39'/40'. Rommel, because even though it's 50% less prestige, the costs for buying and restrength/over strengthening remain the same, and thus you are left with very little room for error in the prestige area, which will be especially tough later on. Expert players, amongst which i would certainly put Goose_2 as well on Field Marshall have +60000 prestige after 1942 and around 20000 at the end of 1945 ( from what I've seen ), if you play on Rommel, you will be happy to have 15-20000 at 1942 probably, which would make things quite difficult for you later on being unable to over strength your units all the time, which nets you more losses etc.

Guderian but only if you go for decisive victory every time. This way you are forced to take big risks, and have the potential to take lots of damage and destroyed units, hurting you especially in the experience department, prestige also somewhat due to excessive rebuying of overstrength units. Having less experienced units in the later Russian years would then also be the biggest problem. ( would the defensive scenarios also have 5 turns less?, that would be a slight relief)

The Manstein difficulty probably is only at the beginning, when your units are inexperienced and the gap between your ( 10 str ) and enemy ( 15 str ) is very large especially with green units. Later on, when you have lots of prestige, from 1940 onwards you have the possibility to overstrength your units probably every map due to the large amount of prestige you gather. The difference of your units at 13+ and 15 for the enemy, is much less of a problem, especially with the bonus from experience your units get, and the superiority of the equipment the Germans have from 1943 onwards.

I'm quite interested in how the Guderian playthrough will turn out, so i hope to see some posts in this department. Hope you will keep us updated.

NightPhoenix,
Thanks for thoughtful analysis of the three general levels. I also know you don't get to deploy your whole core force on some maps on Rommel level, but then you have instant reinforcements you don't have to buy. With Guderian you earn less prestige since there are fewer turns to play. An interesting choice for the GC.

Do not underestimate Manstein level. It is kind of a combination of the worst of Rommel and Guderian. You are slowed down a lot and have to take risks just as in Guderian to meet the time limts. And because of overstrenght and higher losses you will suffer in the prestige department just like on Rommel. 15 strength enemy units do take their toll no matter how strong the german units are. Moreover your core will suffer from one-shot-kills. 20-strenght conscript with rugged defense. Stalingrad on Manstein? Or some special units that already have overstrength like the 20-strength-Pershing Patton is fielding in the US scenarios. Those are just insane, but even a regular soviet AT gun at 15 strength is enough to give a Tiger a very bad day.

The only thing you have going for you on Manstein level is the quicker gain of experience. Which is capped in the GC anyways.

From my Wehrmacht campaign experience I can assure you that Manstein is the most difficult. I do not see why that should be different in GC.

I appreciate the active discussion on this one as there seems to be the most interest in this one. I am an avid fan of Braccada and Night Phoenix and will be following very closely a lot of his strategy at least when I get to 1940 on Manstein level, as it is more the Ulver Gaming strategy that I am more or less applying for the Guderian level, although the unit purchases are generally stronger on Ulver Gaming's playthrough. Although he is a huge fan of Pioniere's where as I am a much bigger fan of the Gerbisjager's, but at least for the Manstein playthrough I am going to try and build an extremely diverse amount of units as I am expecting to need a lot more units than I did in the Field Marshall level once I get to 1944 and 1945.

I will let you all decide based on how these AAR's pan out which level is the most difficult. (I have my own thinking, but will leave it to your good judgment.)

With that said it is on with my first blind playthrough of Danzig Corridor North:
Starting prestige 1245 but after replacements, minimal overstrengthening, and new purchases 10. (Yeah you read that correctly 10 left in prestige)

I disbanded 2 Pz1a's and bought 1 Pz38(t)c, 1 JU-87B, 2 Bf-110c's and 1 additional 10.5cm arty's and upgraded my 7.5cm arty to a 10.5cm arty.
I brought everything except 1 10.5cm arty with 2 stars already, Recon Rudel, and Fighter.
Let's see how I do with my first time on this map.

Day 1 Sunny:
Seized airfield next to Czluchow and pressuring Butow and Danzig.
Destroyed PzL-P.11c.
Day 1 ai CA:
TKS, arty, Polish inf hit my aux inf -9 me and Polish Cavalry and AT hit my Pz1B -9 me and -9 them total. (Man these overstrengthened units are just incredible.)

Day 2 Sunny
Pressuring Zukowo and seized Butow.
Destroyed TKS and 3 Polish Infantry units.
Bought 7 reg reps for aux inf.
Day 2 ai CA:
arty and Polish Inf hit my aux inf -8 me.

Day 3 Sunny:
Seized Czluchow and Zukowo.
Destroyed 75mm arty.
Bought 8 reg reps for aux Pz1B.
Day 3 ai CA:
Post Office Garrison hit aux inf -4 each.

Day 4 Cloudy:
Seized all of Danzig and Osle as well as pressuring Direchau.
Destroyed Post Office Garrison.
Day 4 ai CA:
AT hit Pz1B -5 each.

Day 5 Cloudy:
Seized Direchau, Marrenwerder, and Bridge (16,2) as well as pressuring Wiecbork.
Destroyed 2 polish inf's and Polish Cavalry.
Bought 6 regular replacements for aux inf and 5 for aux Pz1B.
Day 5 ai CA:
Maciej's 7TP hit Gerbisjager in the hills -3 me -2 them.

Day 6 Sunny:
Seized Malbork and Bridge (15,7)
Destroyed AT and Cavalry.
Bought 1 reg replacement for Gerbisjager.
Day 6 ai CA:
Bomber hit recon -2 them -1 me , 7TP Maciej's hit Gerbisjager in hills -1 me.

Day 7 Sunny:
Pressuring Koronowo and seized Wabrzezno and Grudziadz.
Destroyed PzL-P.11c and AT.
Bought 2 reg reps for core Gerbisjager.
Day 7 and 8 ai CA: Nothing
Day 8 Sunny:
Pressuring Torun and seized Koronowo.
Destroyed 75mm arty.

Day 9 Sunny:
I could seize the final objective but waiting to destroy and try to seize more.
Destroyed AT.
Day 9 ai CA:
Bomber and Maciej's 7TP destroyed my Pz38(t)c.

Day 10 Sunny
Seized airfield near Bydgoszcz to trap AA, which helped me to force surrender that unit, which is actually the way most of the units that I mark destroyed are in fact destroyed as it is the best way to earn additional prestige and to overcome the insane strength they are fielding with each unit. Also did the same to a Polish inf.
Brought out 2nd fighter to replace lost Pz38(t)c.
Day 10 ai CA:
Maciej's 7TP hit 3.7cm pak -4 each and AT hit core German Inf in airfield -5 each.

Day 11 Sunny:
Seized Wicebork and pressured Skepe.
Destroyed AT.
Day 11 ai CA: Nothing.

Day 12 Sunny:
Seized Bridge (13,19) (15,22) and (14,18) Main Objective as well as Rypin.
Destroyed Maciej's 7TP, AT, TKS, Polish Inf, and 105mm arty.
Day 12 ai CA:
Inf hit Gerbisjager on Bridge for -7 :ouch: , but Oh well as I was still able to get a Decisive Victory with 1360 in prestige.

I was awarded an SE Gerbisjager with a truck that I will disband the truck in Norway and will disband the SE Unit itself once I get 2nd SE unit as I need SE Panzers for later in the war.

In looking at my army for some strange reason I have 2 artillery units with greater than 225 in experience. Not sure how that is possible, as I did not tweak the standings, just clicked Manstein and started Campaign.
I am going to try and trade out experienced units for brand new green units but I am running out of money to buy new units.

Final assessment of this scenario is I was able to get a Decisive Victory on my first playthrough, but I lost a Pz unit as was not expecting them to have much of an airforce but I still had to deal with 2 Fighters and a Bomber. I could have replayed it for better results, but am satisfied with the outcome here so continuing forward.

Next time Lodz with 1510 in prestige.

Thanks again for all the interest in this playthrough, this forum is full of the best people.

I might even get time to type up my next report of my Italian Challenge. Not sure if there is enough time, but we shall see.

Blessings!

Hey look at this even more AAR's from goose_2.

Lodz on Manstein
Starting with 1510 in prestige but after replacements and new purchases 176!!!
Awarded SE Gerbisjager with truck that I will keep until I am awarded another SE unit as I can only have 2 and I desire to have all SE Panzers as they are the best and are needed in the later years based on the Soft Cap.
I have 4 arty's that already are maxed out on the amount of experience they can earn in 1939 already.
Based on that Bought 3 new 10.5 cm arty's with trucks, Pz2c that I am intending on turning into a nice Flammpanzer in Russia, and a JU-87B.

Brought 5 10.5 cm arty's, 1 recon, 2 regular inf, 1 Gerbisjager, SE Gerbisjager, Pz2c, 2 JU-87B's, 2 BF-110c's.
Following the same kind of strategy as did for Guderian, concentrating on going South and swinging North once united with 10th Army and going for another Decisive Victory.

Day 1 Sunny
Seized Zelow and Kalisz.
Destroyed 2 Polish Inf.
Day 1 ai CA:
Arty hit Gerbisjager -1 me; Pz2C hit by Polish Mtn Inf. -5 me -1 them ; Kolbert Brigade hit aux Pz1B -4 me -2 them; aux Pz38(t)a hit by Cavalry -7 them -2 me; AT hit aux Pz2C for -3 them -5 me. (Very different from Guderian playthrough, very different)

Day 2 Sunny
Seized Sieradz.
Destroyed 75mm arty, Mtn Inf., Cavalry.
Awarded Oleh Dir, that if I lose I will just cry.
Bought 5 reg reps for core Pz2c.
Day 2 ai CA:
Cavalry hit 10th army Pz2C leaving me with 1 str left. Yikes!

Day 3 Sunny
Pressuring Lask.
Destroyed 2 Polish Inf, and Cavalry.
Bought 4 reg reps for 10th army's Pz1B and Pz38(t)c.
Day 3 ai CA:
TKS tried hitting arty guarded by 2 other arty's -5 them.

Day 4 Sunny
Seized Lask and Piotrkow Trynubalski.
Bought 9 reg reps for 10th army Pz2C.
Day 4 ai CA:
Kolbert Brigade and another AT almost destroyed the 10th Army's Recon. Yikes these high strength units really have a tremendous bite.

Day 5 Rainy:
Seized Tomaszaw Mazowiecki.
Destroyed Kolbert Brigade, another 37mm AT, and Cavalry.
Day 5 ai CA:
Mtn Inf hit 10th army's Pz1B -2 me -1 them and 37mm AT hit 10th Army Pz38(t)a -3 each.

Day 6 Sunny:
Seized Airfield (21,19) and pressuring Brzeziny.
Destroyed 37mm AT and Mtn Inf.
Day 6 ai CA: Mtn Inf. hit 10th Army's Pz1B -2 me.

Day 7 Sunny:
Bought 2 Reg Reps for 10th army's Pz1B.
Destroyed Polish Inf.
Day 7 ai CA:
TKS and arty hit core Recon -3 me -2 them and Mtn Inf hit 10th Army's Pz1B -2 them -3 me.

Day 8 Sunny
Assaulting Lodz and seized Glowno and Brzeziny.
Destroyed Mtn Inf, TKS, 75mm arty, 37mm AT.
Day 8 ai CA:
Mtn Inf hit Gerbisjager -1 me -6 them.

Day 9 Sunny
Seized airfield near Lowicz as well as airfield next to Lodz, we are even now pressuring Piatek.
Destroyed 40mm AA, Mtn Inf, and 105mm arty.
Day 9 ai CA:
2 Polish Inf's hit my Experienced Wehrmacht and still I was brought down from 10 strength down to 1 Str. Man this is rough!

Day 10 Sunny
Seized all of Lodz and pressuring Lowicz.
Destroyed Polish Inf.
Day 10 ai CA:
Polish inf hit 10th Army's Pz2C -7 me -2 them and 37mm hit my Core Pz2C -4 me -2 them.

Day 11 Sunny:
Destroyed 75mm arty and 37mm AT.
Day 11 ai CA: Nothing, finally.

Day 12 Sunny
Seized Lowicz and Piatek.
Destroyed 3 Polish Inf.
Day 12 ai CA:
TKS attack came out of nowhere and destroyed the 10th Army Pz1B, but I saved enough aux units to garner a Decisive Victory with 1292.
Next shall be Piatek with 1492 prestige.

It helps to come up with the strategy that works for Guderian and then attempt that with Manstein, but just do it slower and more methodically than you do with Guderian.

Let's see how I do in Piatek on Manstein level.

goose_2 wrote:Although he is a huge fan of Pioniere's where as I am a much bigger fan of the Gerbisjager's, but at least for the Manstein playthrough I am going to try and build an extremely diverse amount of units as I am expecting to need a lot more units than I did in the Field Marshall level once I get to 1944 and 1945.

I think multiple Pioneer units may be a must-own. At some point soon you're going to encounter some dug in defenders that you have to remove. While you can usually wear down the entrenchment with artillery & bombers, you simply may not have the time to wait for them to get into position to do their trick. You may have to just go in with the Pioneers which will ignore the entrenchment. You'll also have to take your lumps in the process.

One more thing to consider is that you can switch your units from Pioneers to other types and vice-versa. There will be a prestige cost, but, you'll retain the heroes & experience, and that may be your best option. At some point or another, you will probably need every trick you can fit into your bag.

Lastly, due to turn constraints, you may even have to go with speedy HT transports. Good luck!

goose_2 wrote: Lodz on Manstein
Starting with 1510 in prestige but after replacements and new purchases 176!!!

You're going to have to use every opportunity you can to find to force surrenders. You may even have to find ways to create some of these opportunites.

Don't forget, if you can force an overstrength unit to surrender, you should get that much more prestige...

I do not like Pioneers so much either. It is so hard to destroy 15 strenght units without forcing a surrender. For that you have to dig them out first anyways. To really gain an advantage you would need a lot of Pioneers and they are expensive, slow and their initiative sucks. Moreover I usually get better results by using a heavy inf on the still entrenched unit than with the Pioneer. Gebirgsjäger are also very nice because of their movement and you can save the transport. That is a big factor on Manstein because reinforcements during the mission are more common. Meaning it is suicidal not to do it. Everything not at 10 strength minimum is at a high risk of dieing instantly.

TSPC37730 wrote:

goose_2 wrote: Lodz on Manstein
Starting with 1510 in prestige but after replacements and new purchases 176!!!

You're going to have to use every opportunity you can to find to force surrenders. You may even have to find ways to create some of these opportunites.

Don't forget, if you can force an overstrength unit to surrender, you should get that much more prestige...

To avoid any misconceptions. The 15 strength at Manstein is not overstrength. The units have a base strength of 15 and overstrength starts at 16. You can see that at the health indicator. Like 15/15. Overstrength reads as 17/15. So unfortunately there is not a massive surrender income The base cost of the unit should be unchanged, but usually you do get more prestige out of the surrender, because likely a higher proportion of the enemy unit is still alive. At least that is how it should work.

braccada wrote:

TSPC37730 wrote:

goose_2 wrote: Lodz on Manstein
Starting with 1510 in prestige but after replacements and new purchases 176!!!

You're going to have to use every opportunity you can to find to force surrenders. You may even have to find ways to create some of these opportunites.

Don't forget, if you can force an overstrength unit to surrender, you should get that much more prestige...

To avoid any misconceptions. The 15 strength at Manstein is not overstrength. The units have a base strength of 15 and overstrength starts at 16. You can see that at the health indicator. Like 15/15. Overstrength reads as 17/15. So unfortunately there is not a massive surrender income The base cost of the unit should be unchanged, but usually you do get more prestige out of the surrender, because likely a higher proportion of the enemy unit is still alive. At least that is how it should work.

Admittedly, I've never played on the Manstein level. The prospect of encountering 17, 18+ strength Russian tanks in '43 & afterwards is beyond daunting. It seems truly hopeless. I would pretty much be resigned to assuming that there'd be no way I'd get to '45. It would merely just be a question of how far I could go before finally giving up.

I love seeing this much discussion going on about this insane playthrough.
I can verify what Braccada is saying about the units that start out at 15 strength are not overstrengthened they just start out with more for the same price. A good deal of the numbers of enemy units I type up as destroyed actually are force surrendered at least when and where I can. Some scenarios are easier than others to pull that stunt on, as Danzig Corridor North was mostly Surrendered based on being able to block them next to the impassable river.
The thing that is bleeding away most of my prestige is buying replacements in the middle of the scenarios as I cannot risk walking around with weakened units on the front line when the ai is fielding 15 strength units. Just crazy. But my other prestige stealer, which I am completely ok with, is all of the new purchases. I keep trying to buy as many new units as I can afford as many of my units already have the maximum amount of experience they can earn in 1939.

I am seriously trying to build as large of a base core to be able to absorb the inevitable losses coming in 1943 and onwards with that said I am not sure how many artillery units to purchase as most of my artillery units get maxed out on experience after 1 single mission. I think I will start limiting it to 1 or 2 new artys per mission, as I want new infantry units, and maybe 1 or 2 more tanks, I am not sure as I know I can find a bunch of hidden tanks rewarded in various scenarios, so I think I will try 1 more Pz2c and may try 1 additional Pz38(t)a. I think 2 more fighters so that I have at least 6 strong fighters going into 1940, and probably 8 Tac Bombers and 3 Strat Bombers. I love a strong airforce. I am also trying to incorporate more Anti-tanks to build up my base for strong anti tanks to take into the later years as the Germans start fielding some incredible Anti tanks in the latter war years but if you are unable to give them experience they lose their effectiveness.

Whoa that took a lot of thought process to lead me to why I am posting
Piatek 2nd try (My first one was truly a lesson in pain as when the destruction came barreling through my meager force trying to defend the Northern sector it left me butt hurt. )
So here is my 2nd try:
Starting with 1492 but after replacements and new purchases 141!!!
Bought 1 88 placed in Ozorkow; 1 3.7cm pak with truck placed on Bzura Bridge (17,10), 1 Fighter placed in airfield in Southwest. 1 Sturmpanzer above Glowino
Other deployments were my experienced 3.7cm pak at Bzura Bridge (10,14), Oleh Dir on Piatek, 4 arty's around Osse, SE Gerbisjager and Pz2C also around Glowino, Recon and Experienced Gerbisjager around Lowicz, 1 other fighter around Southwestern airport, 1 fighter and JU-87B at Northeastern airport.

Let the 20 rounds of pain begin:

Day 1 ai CA: Enemy destroyed aux recon.
Day 1 Sunny: Mainly preparing for the massize army coming by backing out of victory objectives to let the enemy seize them and set it up so that as they do they will attack the unit adjacent to it and where possible will be pounded by arty and then hit by a good counter attack.

Day 2 ai CA:
Enemy seized Bzura Bridge (20,11) (17,10), Ozorkow, and Piatek all of these units adjacent were attacked by the seizing unit and 2 were fully repulsed while 2 were taken from my green 88 and 2 from my Pz2C.
Day 2 Sunny
Seized Bzura Bridge (20,11) and Ozorkow.
Destroyed Polish inf and TKS.
Bought 2 reg reps for Pz2C.

Day 3 ai CA:
Enemy seized Bzura Bridge (10,14) and all attacks were repulsed by well placed arty's.
Day 3 Cloudy:
Destroyed Polish Inf, TKS, and General Boltuc. Yes!!
Bought 1 reg rep for Recon.

Day 4 ai CA:
Southern observation post was destroyed, 3 inf tried to hit my aux 3.7cm pak located on the river but guarded by arty -9 them -6 me (That was surprising and good to have happen.) 2 other infantry hit my Recon -3 them -4 me.
Day 4 Sunny
Destroyed TKS.

Day 5 ai CA:
Almost all attacks were repulsed except 1 arty hit by unit who attacked from the river while my arty was defended by another arty so -1 me though -8 them.
Day 5 Sunny:
Seized Bzura Bridge (17,10) and Bakow Gorny.
Destroyed 3 more Polish Inf's.
Bought regular replacements for various units.

Day 6 ai CA:
All attacks, which were many, were repulsed by well placed arty's except for an arty hitting my 88 for -1.
Day 6 Sunny:
Destroyed PZL-P.11C and 2 more Polish Infantry units.
Bought 1 reg rep for core 3.7cm pak.

Day 7 ai CA: Nothing (nice)
Day 7 Sunny:
Retook Piatek.
Destroyed TKS, Polish Inf, and Cavalry.
I bought 3 regular replacements for my core 88 and 1 regular rep for my core 3.7cm pak.

Day 8 ai CA:
Enemy destroyed aux 3.7cm pak as the attack in the South is just crazy Strong as the enemy once again has seized Ozorkow.
Day 8 Sunny:
Destroyed TKS and Cavalry.

Day 9 ai CA:
Arty hit 88 -2 me; Cavalry hit arty guarded by another arty -2 me -5 them; and the enemy also reseized Piatek.
Day 9 Sunny
Retook Piatek.
Destroyed TKS, Polish Inf, and Cavalry.
Bought 2 reg reps for 88 yet again.

Day 10 ai CA:
Arty hit 88 -2 me; Inf hit 3.7cm pak guarded by an arty leaving me with 6 str points left. (I need to do something about that stupid 75mm arty just pounding on me across the river )
Day 10 Sunny:
Retook Bzura Bridge (10,14)
Destroyed 7tP.
Bought 6 reg replacements for aux 3.7cm pak and 2 for 75mm arty.

Day 11 ai CA:
General Wlad hit arty guarded by another arty -6 me; Polish Inf hit Pz2C -2 each.
Uh-Oh the Northern Push is coming but I am hoping this time I am ready for it.
Day 11 Sunny:
Destroyed Mtn Inf and Renault R35.
Bought 6 reg reps for arty and 1 for 88.

Day 12 ai CA:
Very Rough Round as the Northern Strongpoint guarded by aux 75mm arty was just rick rolled which was followed up by a Mtn Inf attack that reduced my 75mm arty for -7 me; Renault and TKS hit my Recon -4 me -5 them; also Cavalry and inf hit my aux 3.7cm pak guarded by an arty -8 me -5 them; arty hit my 88 -3 me; and finally Polish inf hit my other aux 75mm in the Southwest for -2 me.
Man this is insane what is coming at me and what I have to defend them. Retreat is the only viable plan of action.
Day 12 Sunny:
Yep, that is exactly what I am doing is abandoning Lowicz and that entire region.
Destroyed 2 Polish Inf's.
Bought 4 reg reps for 88 and 1 reg rep for arty.

Day 13 ai CA:
Enemy quickly seized Bzura Bridge (26,9) and Lowicz.
Renault R35 tried hitting Gerbisjager in Bakow Gorny -4 them -0 me; their Arty failed to hit me, finally; and General Wlad seized Bzura Bridge (10,14) but his attack was completely stopped cold by 2 well placed arty's.
Day 13 Sunny:
Seized Leczya and retreated from Bakow Gorny.
Destroyed Cavalry.
Bought 8 reg reps for aux AT and 7 reg reps for 75mm arty, 4 reg reps for recon and finally 2 reg reps for Pz2c. (Just trying to prepare as best as I can.)

Day 14 ai CA:
Mtn Inf hit Pz2C -3 me -4 them; TKS hit Gerbisjager guarded by arty -6 them -5 me; Enemy seized Northeastern airfield and Skiernrewice.
Day 14 Sunny:
Retook Bzura Bridge and Piatek as well as Daszyna.
Finally destroyed 75mm arty, Polish Inf, and General Wlad.

Day 15 ai CA:
AAAAaarrrGGGGggahhhhh!!!
General Stanislaw destroyed core Gerbisjager guarded by arty.
7tP ambushed by aux AT -5 them -0 me; Enemy seized Bzura Bridge (17,10) and (20,11) but attacks were stopped cold by well placed units and arty.
That stinks to have come this far with that Gerbiajger only to get him destroyed. (I thought about restarting after this, but am choosing to play this out, to see how it fully pans out.)
Day 15 Sunny
Seized Krosniewice.
Destroyed PzL-P.11c, Polish Inf, and TKS.
7th Bf109E awarded Iron Cross 2nd Class (100 kills)
Brought in experienced Regular Inf in Glowno to replace lost Gerbisjager. (I need to let it go )

Day 16 ai CA:
General Kutrzeba just one shotted 10 str aux AT in Piatek!! One shotted! Thank God it was not a core unit.
Mtn Inf hit AT guarded by arty -1 them -3 me. (This stinks)
Day 16 Sunny
Seized Strzegocin.
Destroyed Renault R35 and Mtn Inf.
Bought 3 reg reps for core AT and Pz2C.

Day 17 ai CA:
Enemy seized Piatek but was repulsed by artillery the same happened for General Kutrzeba on the river; was feeling good until that 7tP came down to hit my Recon guarded by an arty -2 them -5 me.
Day 17 Sunny:
Seized airfield near Daszyna and retook Piatek.
Destroyed TKS and General Kutrzeba. That felt good.

Day 18 ai CA:
Cavalry seized Bzura Bridge (10,14) and seized Strzegocin.
3 str 7tP hit 75mm arty -2 me ; and that stinking General Stanislaw hit aux 3.7cm pak guarded by 75mm arty -5 me -4 them.
Day 18 Sunny
Destroyed 2 7tP's and Polish Cavalry.
Bought 2 reg reps for both 75 mm artys and 4 reg reps for aux pak.

Day 19 ai CA:
Renault R35 hit my 3.7cm pak guarded by 2 artys -1 each and infantry tried hitting arty guarded by another arty -7 them -0 me.
Day 19 Sunny:
Seized Bzura Bridge (17,10) and (10,14)
Destroyed Polish inf and General Stanislaw. YES!!! Revenge is so sweet may the memory of those heroic Gerbisjager's live forever. (Ok I am over the loss now.)
JU-87B awarded Iron Cross 2nd Class.

Day 20 ai CA:
2 7tP's hit my Pz2C and the only thing that saved me was being backed up by 2 artillery as I was reduced to only 1 str left. (If I would have lost him I would have definitely restarted this scenario.)
Mtn inf hit my Wehrmacht Inf -1 me -2 them.
Day 20 Sunny
Seized airfield near Skierniwke and Bzura Bridge (20,11) and Strzegocin.
Destroyed Renault R35 and 7tP.

Marginal Victory!
This was a blood bath that I thought about trying one more time again to try and avoid losing any core units but instead I am moving forward as this insanity is not something I want to repeat.
Ending with 1145 and starting next scenario Wyszogrod 1195.

Whoa, cool this is another new scenario for me which will make this blind again, like Danzig North, I love how this game still pulls out new surprises on me. So much fun.

In looking at the map it is the Kampinsoka Forest just without the Northern part in my control. I shall do my best to dominate this next map, but what new units should I buy as many of my units were maxed out on experience and I want to build more experienced Infantry Units? Hmmnn?
This is so much fun.

goose_2 wrote:I am seriously trying to build as large of a base core to be able to absorb the inevitable losses coming in 1943 and onwards

I don't know. I think there's a trade off here. It's not as hard in '39 & '40 to max out your experience levels. The maximums are 225 & 275. Once you get into '41 & the maximum goes to 325 and your rate of experience gain decreases, it will be even harder to gain those extra stars.

But, let's assume that you employ this strategy & go with a large number of units. The trade off will be with units constantly being rotated in & out from scenario to scenario, each individual unit will have fewer kills. Fewer kills will lead to fewer heroes. With this in mind, your corps will be dominated by 0 & 1 hero units. If you went with a smaller corps & used fewer units, they would individually rack up more kills. I think you'd see more 1 & 2 hero units in such a force.

So, the question is, which do you want? More units or more heroes?

In your play through I doubt you'll get to a 3 hero unit. It would almost take a miracle. Further, all of this will make those inevitable spotting heroes all the more disappointing... Nevertheless, I'll still be tuning in.

goose_2 wrote:I think 2 more fighters so that I have at least 6 strong fighters going into 1940, and probably 8 Tac Bombers and 3 Strat Bombers. I love a strong airforce.

Is this really a good idea?? Do you think you'll really be able to afford it given the prestige challenges you're already facing? Watering down your 3+ star fighters to 1+ star fighters with free replacements between scenarios is a real loss given how much those extra stars help you in air-to-air combat.

goose_2 wrote:I am also trying to incorporate more Anti-tanks to build up my base for strong anti tanks to take into the later years as the Germans start fielding some incredible Anti tanks in the latter war years

I agree with this. I like using AT units once the Marder & StuG III units start becoming available in '42.

same text as in the Guderian Campaign

We all know that General'Extraordinaire goose_2 is a brilliant military leader, but like most people with a beautiful mind he does not like the basic office duties

So I volunteered to do some of the paperwork

So here better a bit late than never a few replays from the Manstein Campaign

I will add more as they become available

Just learned something new

you can't add more than 3 attachments to a post

so I have to do it in Packages of 3 a piece as they become available

sorry for the inconvenience

I will probably add a link library for these later so the huge number of replays that will be here soon can be found without a big searching effort-

added Warsaw North and Spoils of War Replays on Feb 5 2017

Good on you for having a go at a tough challenge in public.
In theory surrender should be more important at this level since you will more often get stronger units surrendering and thus more prestige from surrender, as well as being one of the faster and safer ways to eliminate powerful (and overstrength) units quickly.

My current limit is General with about 80% prestige and one or two self-imposed (and periodically overlooked) limits, currently each unit can only have one upgrade or overstrength per scenario. Strangely I seem to have quite a bit more prestige than usual - maybe it's the limited overstrength and being more cautious about upgrading, but possibly helped by using more horse transport - in AK it's no worse than trucks and doesn't need refuelling.

I really appreciate Hurly assisting me on the technical side so people can actually watch the videos to see how I muddled my way through each scenario.
Crazy Stuff!

I see he has posted Wyszogrod.
These results were after my 3rd time playing through it. My first time I tried going East and was being overwhelmed by what was coming at me from the Western side of the map and it showed me that I did not have time or the strength to go after other parts of the map. The 2nd time I again rushed too far North and was overwhelmed by the forces that were located on the Northern portion of the map. For the 3rd and final playthrough I played it safe and for the most part stuck to the main objectives around the Bzura and preventing their seizure.

Starting prestige 1195 and after Replacements and new purchases 46!!!
Bought 1 Sturmpanzer, 1 Fighter, 2 Gerbisjagers. (Trying to build strong base of an army while I can as when I get to the later Campaigns I will not be able to build up experience very easily. I read TSPC37730's post and I feel that now is when I build my base and this allows me to deal with getting lousy heroes or losses, since I can only earn 225 in experience in 1939, 325 in 1940 and 375 in 1941, this is where I build up units with at least 2 stars experience then as they start getting heroes I can more customize my most effective army as I found getting heroes and units with multiple heroes not exceedingly difficult on my first playthrough on Field Marshall. Guderain is being played differently as I need to build an elite tight force since I am going West.)

With that in mind I brought 2 green Gerbisjagers, 2 Sturmpanzers, 3 10.5cm artys, 2 3.7cm pak's, 88, Recon, Pz-2C, JU-87B, Bf-110C, 2 Bf109e's, SE Gerbisjager.

Day 1 Sunny:
Seized Guzow and set up traps around Lowicz and Kuznocin.
Destroyed Cavalry and Polish Inf.
Day 1 ai CA: TKS hit 3.7cm pak -7 them -1 me and TKS hit Gerbisjager in hills guarded by 2 artys in hills -1 me -4 them and AT in Sochaczew came onto the river (which was unexpected) to attack my recon -3 me -5 them and they seized Lowicz and Kuznocin.

Day 2 Sunny:
Seized Lowicz and airfield near Sochaczew so pressuring Sochaczew.
Destroyed TKS, 40mm AA, and another TKS.
Day 2 and 3 ai CA: Nothing
Day 3 Sunny:
Destroyed 75mm arty and Cavalry.
Bought 1 reg rep for core 3.7cm pak.

Day 4 Rainy:
Seized Sochaczew
Destroyed AT.
Bought 3 reg reps for Recon and 1 reg rep for green Gerbisjager.
Day 4 ai CA: Cavalry ambushed trying to come into Lowicz -8 them.

Day 5 Sunny:
Seized Mlodzieszyn.
Destroyed Cavalry and Polish Infantry.
Day 5 ai CA Nothing

Day 6 Cloudy:
Destroyed 37mm AT.
Day 6 ai CA:
Commander Wladvslaw tried barreling into Lowicz but my Gerbisjager was waiting for them -9 them Polish Inf hit Gerbisjager -4 each.

Day 7 Sunny:
Seized all of Wyszogrod except Northern most part and the Vistula River Main Objective.
Destroyed Commander Wladzslaw (interesting read about him on Wikipedia) and 105mm arty.
Bought 6 reg reps for Gerbisjager.
Day 7 and 8 ai CA: Nothing.
Day 8 Cloudy:
Seized Wisla and rest of Wyszogrod.
Destroyed Polish Inf.

Day 9 Cloudy:
Destroyed Polish Infantry.
Bought 1 reg rep for SE Gerbisjager.
Day 9 ai CA:
TKS Tomasz's pressuring Wisla but I am not protecting and TKS seized Kuznocin seized but his attack on my 88 ended with hime hit for -10. Yeah!

Day 10 Sunny:
Reseized Kuznocin.
Destroyed TKS.
10th JU-87B awarded Iron Cross 2nd Class 100 kills.
Bought 2 reg reps for recon.
Day 10 ai CA:
TKS Ambushed by my Pz2c -6 them -0 me and AA hit BF-110C -3 me. Enemy seized Wisla.

Day 11th Sunny:
Destroyed 2 TKS's.
Day 11 ai CA:
Tomasz's TKS took over Mlodzeiszyn -6 them -1 me.

Day 12 Sunny:
Destroyed Tomasz's TKS and a Cavalry.
Day 12 ai CA Nothing

Day 13 Cloudy:
Reseized Mlodzeiszyn.
Destroyed Cavalry and TKS.
Day 13 ai CA:
Aux AT was destroyed that was next to Lowicz.

Day 14 Sunny:
Destroyed Polish Inf.
Day 14 ai CA:
Push is now coming against my hold on Wyszogrod as Polish inf tried hitting my aux Bruckenpioniere guarded by an arty -5 them -2 me.

Day 15 Sunny:
Destroyed Renault-R35.
Day 15 ai CA:
TKS was ambushed by my Pz2C guarded by arty -9 them Yay! , but then a 7TP then came and hit me for -4 me -3 them; 2 infantry hit my Bruckenpioniere leaving me with 1 str point left.

Day 16 Sunny:
Destroyed Mt. Infantry.
Bought 1 reg rep for Pz2C.
Day 16 ai CA:
BruckenPioniere destroyed.

Day 17 Cloudy: Attacking where and how I can but nothing new destroyed and preparing for the final round to hold for the Decisive Victory.
Day 17 ai CA: AA hit Bf-110C -4 me and Renault hit Recon on Vistula guarded by my arty -1 them -5 me.

Day 18 Sunny:
Destroyed TKS.
Day 18 ai CA:
They attacked aux AT and my Sturmpanzer from the River but it is all in vain as "Yay!" I got that Decisive Victory.

Ending prestige 1274.

Well, I had to do this one 3 times to get it right, which is becoming quite a habit on this Manstein mode. This playstyle may get old and I will eventually just have to live with bad playthroughs because at some point as I do not want to get bogged down with getting the desired outcome, but for now I am doing what I am doing and not reloading any battles or rounds, just living with the rolls as they come.

For the next one Modlin I will not even be trying for a Decisive Victory as the Modlin Fortress and Smeric "Death" would be just that a "Death Trap."
Marginal Victory should be easy.
Starting with 1474.
Hmmnnn...What to buy?

Modlin starting prestige 1474 after replacements and new purchases 58?!? Yikes!
Bought new JU-87B, Sturmpanzer, Pz2C, and 2 Henkel's.
Bringing all 4 Gerbisjagers including Oleh Dir and my SE Gerb, Green Pz2C, Recon, 3 Sturmpanzers, 3 10.5cm arty's, 2 Henkel's, 2 JU-87B's, 2 BF-110a's.

Day 1 Sunny
Pressuring Mlawa.
Destroyed 75mm Arty.
Day 1 through 3 ai CA: Nothing. Ah finally some relief.

Day 2 Sunny:
Seized Przasnysz and Mlawa and Raciaz.
Awarded Albert Kerscher.
Destroyed Polish Inf, Mtn Inf, TKS, and another Polish Inf.
Oleh Dir awarded Iron Cross 2nd Class.
Day 3 Sunny:
Seized Ostroleka and It's airfield.
Destroyed Polish Inf.

Day 4:
Seized airfield near Ciechanow and pressuring Ciechanow.
Day 4 ai CA:
Infantry and Anti Tank hit arty in my truck -7 me.

Day 5 Sunny:
seized Ciechanow.
Destroyed 37mm AT, 40mm AA, and Mtn Inf.
Bought Pz2c 1 reg rep.
Day 5 and 6 ai CA: Nothing
Day 6 Sunny:
Seized Pultusk and pressuring Wyszkow.
Destroyed 37mm AT.
Bought 7 reg reps for 10.5cm arty.

Day 7 Cloudy
Seized Wyszkow.
Destroyed Polish Inf.
Day 7 ai CA:
TKS hit SE Gerbisjager -2 each.

Day 8 Sunny:
Destroyed TKS.
Bought 1 reg rep for Gerbisjager.
Day 8 and 9 ai CA: Nothing
Day 9 Sunny:
Seized Nosielsk and Pionsk.
Destroyed 2 Polish Inf's.

Day 10 Sunny:
Pressuring Radzymin.
Day 10 ai CA:
TKS hit Oleh Dir -4 them -2 me.

Day 11 Sunny:
Destroyed 37mm AT and Cavalry.
Day 11 ai CA: Nothing.

Day 12 Sunny:
Seized Nowe Miszewo.
Destroyed TKS and Cavalry.
Day 12 ai CA:
Renault R-35 and Strongpoint reduced my SE Gerbisjager to only 3 str.

Day 13 Sunny:
Seized Radzymin.
Destroyed Strongpoint and Polish Inf.
Bought 3 Reg Reps for Oleh Dir.
Day 13 ai CA:
Renault R-35 hit recon -2 them -4 me and Strongpoint hit Pz2C -5 me -1 them.

Day 14 Sunny:
Destroyed 40mm AA, Central Modlin Fortress, and Renault R-35.
Gerbisjager awarded Iron Cross 2nd Class.
Day 14-16 ai CA Nothing.

Day 15 Sunny.
Seized Southern most airfield.
Destroyed Strongpoint.
Day 16 Sunny: Nothing but preparing
Day 17 Sunny:
Seized Fort Debe.
Day 17 ai CA a bunch of whithering attacks.

Marginal Victory 887

I am trying for Warsaw North at 987 to start with.

I need a Decisive Victory here, but am unsure and unclear how to get it as I am very limited in the number of units I can field but they are very strong in the units they field.

I might not be able to do it, but must get at least a Marginal to continue with the Campaign.

Let me know any suggestions or clues. (I know about getting all of the arty in the East, but how lomg and much do I bring to make that happen?)

So you took out a Modlin Fortress? The AAR says you took out a fortress but I see no losses indicating you got in range of the main fortresses. There is a second 40mm AA to the south so I guess you went around the east. One shot from the main fortress would have wrecked anything in artillery range.

Warsaw you only need 4 for a marginal. I would send a single infantry and ALL the aux units around for the artillery hexes and keep your infantry and artillery concentrated on one side of Warsaw. Ignore the entire other side as they won't do much offensive action there. The attack from the southwest is best for the west side of the river victory hexes, because the other 3 hexes are on the east side and you can't deploy over there. You can focus on taking the west side of the city with a concentrated battlegroup backed by all the artillery you have at full overstrength. Do all artillery and infantry and maybe two fighters and a 110 because they have 4 aircraft in Warsaw and you can't let the artillery get weakened. Just slowly grind out the advance focusing on the three western hexes and wait until you get all the artillery pieces. They use the entire eastern force and aux forces with the artillery to get ONE of the eastern victory hexes (the southernmost one nearest the river would be easy to isolate). If you have any extra time you can drive to the northeast and cross the river.