Slitherine

This may just end up being a points issue, but it seems worth throwing it open to see if there are any other ideas out there.

I think it is safe to say that they are probably not really worth the current cost and they are hardly ever fielded.

What could be done so that they are a viable option to take?

Increase range to 12? Allow divisional moves?

I've used them on several occasions as a sort of beefed up regimental guns to add support to some mixed xbow/halberd units in my Danish army, however I'm not sure that is what they are supposed to represent on the battlefield....

Compared to reggie guns they shoot less effectively, cost more, and are an additional unit that gets lost when the enemy successfully attack you - as they have to be closer to the enemy to shoot, so are more vulnerable to being overrun.

Any of those could be easily fixed, but would that make them function correctly?

The only use I have found for them is as Large Regimental guns for commanded out Pike, so they are protected but of course cannot shoot and move.

I would either reduce points to Regimental Guns or
Allow to make divisional moves with Infantry, Put range to 12", allow to move or wheel 1" and shoot (unless using divisional moves of course)

Easy fix in my mind. Halve the points and allow double the number of LArt in the lists (e.g., an army can have 0-2 artillery, Medium / Light, instead becomes 0-2 Medium or 0-4 Light with the total cost unchanged).

benjones1211 wrote:The only use I have found for them is as Large Regimental guns for commanded out Pike, so they are protected but of course cannot shoot and move.

I would either reduce points to Regimental Guns or
Allow to make divisional moves with Infantry, Put range to 12", allow to move or wheel 1" and shoot (unless using divisional moves of course)

Pretty much what I wrote, but the ability to wheel and shoot is nice too.

Increasing range to 12 would help. Moving and shooting is more problematic. At the moment there aren't any troops who have a reduced move if they plan to shoot, so it's adding a new complexity. Would allowing a full (2MU) move be too much or would it be better to retain move or shoot?

I don't think they should be able to move and shoot, I just wanted to allow a pivot. But increased range+divisional move would do.

timmy1 wrote:Easy fix in my mind. Halve the points and allow double the number of LArt in the lists (e.g., an army can have 0-2 artillery, Medium / Light, instead becomes 0-2 Medium or 0-4 Light with the total cost unchanged).

I think this is insane. you would end up with tonnes of the damned things. I don't see a problem with them as written. Making them twice as effective would be suicide.

kevinj wrote:Increasing range to 12 would help. Moving and shooting is more problematic. At the moment there aren't any troops who have a reduced move if they plan to shoot, so it's adding a new complexity. Would allowing a full (2MU) move be too much or would it be better to retain move or shoot?

I agree that Moving and shooting would be out of sync with artillery rules generally, but moving 3" and being able to move with a brigade move would make it easier to drag them into range to do something.

Moving and shooting makes them almost into clever reggie guns, which I'm not sure is really what they should be. They should be competent light artillery probably...

madaxeman wrote:

kevinj wrote:Increasing range to 12 would help. Moving and shooting is more problematic. At the moment there aren't any troops who have a reduced move if they plan to shoot, so it's adding a new complexity. Would allowing a full (2MU) move be too much or would it be better to retain move or shoot?

I agree that Moving and shooting would be out of sync with artillery rules generally, but moving 3" and being able to move with a brigade move would make it easier to drag them into range to do something.

Moving and shooting makes them almost into clever reggie guns, which I'm not sure is really what they should be. They should be competent light artillery probably...

Inclined to agree with Tim on the move and shoot - if they can do that they are Regimental Guns.

The 3MU move and division move sounds a possible idea to me. Unlike Med/Heavy types these are supposed to be mobile. If 3MU is deemed too fast just allowing divisional moves could help - it would slow the infantry they advance with by 50% of course. (Please don't suggest 2.5MU - half MU's are not happening).

Just divisional moves works for me (being not the Tim Nik is inclined to agree with...).

I'm happy with allowing them to move 3 and by division. What about range, would those changes be sufficient or does that need to increase also?

Not sure about triple move (weren't "galloper" guns more like Reg Guns for mounted?), but yes to by division; also either extend range from 8" to 12" or drop points cost.

The suggestion is to increase the move to 3 MU and allow Divisional moves. As Foot they would only have 2 march moves.

I'd value an increase in range to 12MU from 8MU more than I would an increase in Move from 2 to 3, but on the other hand, I'd really like them to have divisional move, and I can see why some would like increased move then. But divisional move would be worth it even with 2MU move.

kevinj wrote:The suggestion is to increase the move to 3 MU and allow Divisional moves. As Foot they would only have 2 march moves.

OK, mis-read that. Agree with the 3MU change as well, then.

I prefer the 2MU move and 12MU range and allow them in divisions. These with a 3MU move means they become too mobile.

timmy1 wrote:I prefer the 2MU move and 12MU range and allow them in divisions. These with a 3MU move means they become too mobile.

I agree with Timmy.
Denis

I suspect this may be one where 'copying history' might produce an unintended a-historical effect in the game.

12" shooting and 2 MU moves would mean they will be dragged up maybe once or twice with the foot Divisions, and then the foot will speed off and leave the light guns fairly far behind the line. The light guns will be used to snipe through the gaps in the infantry line, adding extra dice and cohesion modifiers to the foot shooting, whilst leaving the artillery as safe as possible by hanging back.

A shorter range and a longer move would be more likely to see light guns dragged them closer to the action, possibly even supporting them with the foot units as front line troops.

I'm not sure whether the latter is entirely historical, but I suspect the former isn't...