Slitherine

Hi folks,

Really newb question here, but my friend and I just ran through an example of combat last night. Our armies haven't arrived yet so we were just trying to get a hang of the rules and such.

Anyhow, we got a bit confused with the distance a unit my charge. Is it simply the distance indicated on the movement chart with regard to the terrain (ex. heavy foot have a 3 in open terrain)? I suppose the reason we got hung up was there was mention of Variable Move Distance rolls, but we couldn't figure out if that was just if the target BG is attempting to evade or if that's in all cases.

Sorry for the dumb question. We're just getting started and trying to work out all the kinks while we wait for awesome packages to arrive. Thanks!

Rattle

Does not apply to normal charges where the opponent stands to receive. The vmd comes into play in the case of evades and also where your opponent routs and one of your units pursues. In this case the movement of both units is subject to a vmd roll. This provides a gegree of uncertainty as to whethe rthe unit is caught or escapes.
John

Yes, VMD are used when all the targets evade. (And with pursuers in contact, but that's another issue)

Doesn't it also extend the 'charge range' for purposes of determining which units may charge without orders? That is, HF Impact Foot has a charge range of 5MU if their possible target is capable of evading and a valid target to cause them to take a CMT to avoid charging?

Jason_Langlois wrote:Doesn't it also extend the 'charge range' for purposes of determining which units may charge without orders? That is, HF Impact Foot has a charge range of 5MU if their possible target is capable of evading and a valid target to cause them to take a CMT to avoid charging?

No, you can only charge if your target is within charge range. VMD applies if your initial targets all evade.

The troops charging without orders bit you are thinking of is that under certain circumstances such troops do not have to test to charge if by doing so they could put themselves in certain silly situations. As such the "(If the enemy who would be charged are capable of evading...)" bit on P 58 applies to the "However, shock tropps will not charge without orders..." bit above it.

If you have cavalry lancers facing light horse and a move of 6 MU (i.e. the 4 MU uneven terrain move plus a maximum VMD boost) would mean the lancer would enter uneven terrain then the lancers will not be forced to charge. If the uneven terrain is more than 6MU but less than 7 MU the lancers would still have to test as a maximum charge of 7MU in good going would reduce to 6MU on hitting terrain so would stop on the edge of the uneven terrain.

If you have cavalry lancers facing light horse and a move of 6 MU (i.e. the 4 MU uneven terrain move plus a maximum VMD boost) would mean the lancer would enter uneven terrain then the lancers will not be forced to charge. If the uneven terrain is more than 6MU but less than 7 MU the lancers would still have to test as a maximum charge of 7MU in good going would reduce to 6MU on hitting terrain so would stop on the edge of the uneven terrain.

In terms my Mid-Republic Roman mind can understand...

So if my Heavy Foot hastatii & principes are 4MU from a unit of light foot bowmen in the open, I don't have to make a CMT to avoid being forced to charge?

Or if they were withing 3MU of the LF, but right behind the LF is some rough ground that would disorder the HF, I wouldn't have to make the CMT, because an evasion by the LF could lead my HF into that rough ground with a high VMD roll?

hammy wrote: No, you can only charge if your target is within charge range. VMD applies if your initial targets all evade.

The troops charging without orders bit you are thinking of is that under certain circumstances such troops do not have to test to charge if by doing so they could put themselves in certain silly situations. As such the "(If the enemy who would be charged are capable of evading...)" bit on P 58 applies to the "However, shock tropps will not charge without orders..." bit above it.

Err, that's not how I've played it... what you say isn't very clear to be honest

Oh boy, thanks folks. In short, my initial question was answered, but obviously raised more. I guess we're going to have to play more little games to get the hang of things. Not a bad option in any case!

Thanks again for the replies. And for the afirmation that I'm not the only one who's a wee bit confused as a beginner!

Rattle

So, if a BG of shock mounted Cav is <1 Mu from a BG of LF but also <7 MU from an area of ground that would disorder it it does not have to test not to charge, it can just decide not to as its VMD may lead it into the disordering ground. Or is it, because the ground would slow the move, disordering terrain within 6MU for uneven when it would not need to test. But terrain makes no difference to the VMD distance, so if it moved its 5 MU, rolled a 6 adds 2 MU it would get 1 MU into uneven ground, 4 MU move for uneven plus the added 2 MU, or would it be 2 MU in the uneven as it moves 5 in the open and then adds VMD? When is the VMD added? I have now really confused myself

Jason_Langlois wrote:

In terms my Mid-Republic Roman mind can understand...

So if my Heavy Foot hastatii & principes are 4MU from a unit of light foot bowmen in the open, I don't have to make a CMT to avoid being forced to charge?

Or if they were withing 3MU of the LF, but right behind the LF is some rough ground that would disorder the HF, I wouldn't have to make the CMT, because an evasion by the LF could lead my HF into that rough ground with a high VMD roll?

Correct in both cases.

philqw78 wrote:So, if a BG of shock mounted Cav is <1 Mu from a BG of LF but also <7 MU from an area of ground that would disorder it it does not have to test not to charge, it can just decide not to as its VMD may lead it into the disordering ground. Or is it, because the ground would slow the move, disordering terrain within 6MU for uneven when it would not need to test. But terrain makes no difference to the VMD distance, so if it moved its 5 MU, rolled a 6 adds 2 MU it would get 1 MU into uneven ground, 4 MU move for uneven plus the added 2 MU, or would it be 2 MU in the uneven as it moves 5 in the open and then adds VMD? When is the VMD added? I have now really confused myself

page 40: "The lower move distance applies to the whole move..."

Whole move = normal move + VMD

normal move = lowest speed on the table for any terrain entered during the whole move

So in your example, the whole move would be 4 MU for uneven + 2 MU for VMD.
This applies even if you enter the uneven terrain only in the VMD part of the move.

If the uneven ground is within 6 MU you don't have to test. If it is over 6 MU you do have to test and you cannot enter the uneven ground because if you were to do so, you would have exceeded your allowed whole move.

lawrenceg wrote:

Jason_Langlois wrote:

In terms my Mid-Republic Roman mind can understand...

So if my Heavy Foot hastatii & principes are 4MU from a unit of light foot bowmen in the open, I don't have to make a CMT to avoid being forced to charge?

Or if they were withing 3MU of the LF, but right behind the LF is some rough ground that would disorder the HF, I wouldn't have to make the CMT, because an evasion by the LF could lead my HF into that rough ground with a high VMD roll?

Correct in both cases.

Trying again.

If a maximum (or in some cases minimum) VMD would result in a charge meeting the conditions that mean that there is no requirement to test AND your target could evade then you don't have to test.

So if the legionaries are less than 4 MU from uneven or rough ground then they don't need to test as if they roll a 6 on the VMD roll they would charge a total of 4MU (2MU of move in restricting terrain +2 for the VMD) entering the terrain. If they were between 4 and 5 MU from the rough ground then they would have to charge as a maximum VMD would give a good going move of 5MU and a move in uneven or rough of only 4 MU so they won't have enough move to enter the restricting terrain hence they do have to test to charge and if they roll a 6 on the VMD they will end up right at the edge of the terrain.

I realise this is a bit fiddly but if I answered without the detail the answer would be incorrect.