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Interception charge to flank
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:56 am
by peterrjohnston
Just to check we ruled on this correctly at the club on Friday, and didn't miss something (Gug and I practising to be umpires
)
A BG that if charging would be in a position to make a flank charge, makes an interception charge. Because it's
an interception charge, it normally must go straight forward. Consequently the first part contacted of the enemy
BG is the front corner. This means it doesn't count as a flank charge, therefore the enemy BG's charge isn't
cancelled (they could step-forward into their original target). Correct?
A bit of confusion we had is on p63 under "An interception charge must be straight forward (except as below)...",
followed by two sub-points, one for wheeling if enemy would contact the interceptors flank, the other for flank
or rear contact of the enemy BG - this second point doesn't mention wheeling. I assume the "except as below"
was only for the first of the two sub-points? But I've been wrong many times before...
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:36 am
by hammy
Sounds right to me.
Interception charges ar very limited in their maneouver options. If you want to setup an interception that can hit a flank, make sure you are in the right place when you have moved.
Also interception charges can't actually contact unless they hit the flank, if they would hit the front they have to stop just short so the intercepted BG can potentially wheel before stepping forwards.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:02 pm
by peterrjohnston
hammy wrote:If you want to setup an interception that can hit a flank, make sure you are in the right place when you have moved.
Not my problem, someone else's game
hammy wrote:Also interception charges can't actually contact unless they hit the flank, if they would hit the front they have to stop just short so the intercepted BG can potentially wheel before stepping forwards.
You what? (The first bit).
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:42 pm
by terrys
"An interception charge must be straight forward (except as below)...",
The above quote specifically says that you must move straight ahead except.....
i.e. if you are going to (legally) hit the flank the move doesn't have to be straight ahead - i.e. it can include a wheel.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:05 pm
by hammy
terrys wrote:"An interception charge must be straight forward (except as below)...",
The above quote specifically says that you must move straight ahead except.....
i.e. if you are going to (legally) hit the flank the move doesn't have to be straight ahead - i.e. it can include a wheel.
What??
Checks rule book.....
I think I am now going to dissagree with Terry.
The rules state that (except as below) it must be directly forwards and then there are two sub sections, only one of which mentions a wheel and that is when you charge into the path of the enemy charge and wheel to stop yourself being hit in the flank. There is no mention of wheels being allowed in a flank charge but also no mention of them not being allowed.
An interception charge must be directly forward (except as below) and can be up to the limit of the battle group’s ZOI. It cannot include any shifts, changes of formation or interpenetrations. It must either:
o Cross the path of the charging enemy battle group. Interceptors move before chargers. If this would result in the enemy chargers contacting its flank, the intercepting battle group can and must wheel towards them to avoid this, its total move distance including the wheel not exceeding 4 MUs if mounted, 2 MUs if foot. If it cannot avoid being contacted in the flank, the interception is cancelled.
o Contact the flank or rear of the enemy battle group. This is only permitted if the intercepting battle group started in a position to charge the flank or rear of the enemy battle group as previously described. It cancels the enemy battle group’s charge completely and despite the fact that it happens in the enemy’s turn, is treated as a normal flank/rear charge.
I can see how you could take it that in the second case a wheel is allowed but as wheels are specifically mentioned in the first clause and not at all in the second it is hardly obvious that a flank charge can include a wheel.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:08 pm
by peterrjohnston
terrys wrote:"An interception charge must be straight forward (except as below)...",
The above quote specifically says that you must move straight ahead except.....
i.e. if you are going to (legally) hit the flank the move doesn't have to be straight ahead - i.e. it can include a wheel.
Ah, this is different!
Just to be clear, if a BG could hit the flank* by wheeling if it was charging, it can also do so as part of an intercept charge?
It's not very clear whether the "except as below" applies only on the first sub-point where it specifically mentions wheeling to
avoid the interceptor being hit in the flank, whereas the second part doesn't mention wheels as part of contacting a flank/rear.
*Of course starting in a position to do so, ie not in front, at least one base entirely behind, more than 1MU away so it can
wheel.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:09 pm
by lawrenceg
terrys wrote:"An interception charge must be straight forward (except as below)...",
The above quote specifically says that you must move straight ahead except.....
i.e. if you are going to (legally) hit the flank the move doesn't have to be straight ahead - i.e. it can include a wheel.
In that case, you could wheel in any frontal intercept. If avoiding being hit in your own flank then the wheel is compulsory, otherwise it is optional by the same argument as the one that it is optional for the flank intercept.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:12 pm
by peterrjohnston
hammy wrote:
What??
hammy wrote:...but as wheels are specifically mentioned in the first clause and not at all in the second it is hardly obvious that a flank charge can include a wheel.
Well, that's what I thought from reading it.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:39 pm
by rbodleyscott
I also disagree with Terry. An intercept can only wheel to avoid being hit in the flank by the chargers.
The exception is explicit in the first bullet, and only applies to the situation in the first bullet.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:52 pm
by hammy
rbodleyscott wrote:I also disagree with Terry. An intercept can only wheel to avoid being hit in the flank by the chargers.
The exception is explicit in the first bullet, and only applies to the situation in the first bullet.
Perhaps one to be confirmed and FAQ'd?
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:55 pm
by rbodleyscott
hammy wrote:rbodleyscott wrote:I also disagree with Terry. An intercept can only wheel to avoid being hit in the flank by the chargers.
The exception is explicit in the first bullet, and only applies to the situation in the first bullet.
Perhaps one to be confirmed and FAQ'd?
Flag it up on the development board Mr Moderator.
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:12 pm
by peterrjohnston
So for once I got something right?
Wonders will never cease...
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:32 am
by terrys
I also disagree with Terry. An intercept can only wheel to avoid being hit in the flank by the chargers.
The exception is explicit in the first bullet, and only applies to the situation in the first bullet.
Obviously a case where 2 of the authors have been playig it a different way.....
We'll discuss it and get back!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:45 am
by terrys
We've had a discussion on this and the concensus is that my original interpretation was incorrect.
The only time a wheel is allowed is if the intercepters would end in a position that the chargers would hit them in the flank. (1st bullet)
Intercepters cannot wheel into the flank of the chargers. (2nd bullet)
Sorry guys!