Slitherine

Questions for you PZ Corps vets...

I finally made it to DLC 1943 East for the first time, and after upgrades to my core, I have about 4,000 prestiege. I'm playing on FM, and am no noob to wargames or even the originaly PZ General. However....after surviving '42 (wow that was crazy), I am having reservations that I may need to go back to Poland, start all over and play to bank prestiege this time in order to survive through '45.

Is it possible or do I need to start over in your opinion? After reading some threads on prestiege, I definitely could manage it better, and I would change up my entire core, just stinks I'd lose all that effort.

I am doing blind playthrough on FM level and am in 1942 halfway through Storming Stalingrad Loving it, please no spoilers, I just got surprised by the small secret group that took my central airfields and am in the midst of knocking them back which has slowed down my drive for the main objectives in Stalingrad.
I would definitely play this scenario different if I was to play it again, but that is my point, you only get to play blind once and those challenges make it more realistic and fun. I should have brought more bombers and at least one AT unit and less Fighters.
So much fun. I have over 60000 in prestige
Find the low down here and my use of units and prestige management.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 45&t=65111

I had to start my campaign all over when I finished 1941 the first time because my computer pooped on me and I lost all my saved games.
My suggestion is to finish your Grand Campaign as it will be difficult and challenging but you can only do a blind playthrough once. I am enjoying the game now that I am at a Blind Playthrough but since I had to restart I now have a stronger force than I would have had I just had that first blind playthrough. You can only do it blind once and that gives it a more real feel to it.

You could also do both, start over, and continue this first playthrough. Have fun with this amazing game.

This is why we need the game to save to the cloud!


I am definitely considering the restart. I think if I were to do it, I would do a lot of things differently such as the following:


PRESTIGE PLAN
-Have lots of airborne infantry and grenadiers for the city scenarios
-Only take SE tanks, disband any other SE units
-Start early with anti-tank units (self-propelled)
-Go with Fighters and Strat Bombers only
-Find captured equipment and sell
-Go with only towed artillery and Wurfhammen
-Run out scenarios for prestige and grab minor vic locations
-Only upgrade within same family of units
-Only overstr artillery, AT, and strat bombers
-Don't buy 88's (this one is up for debate would like to hear opinions on 88's)
-Avoid in-scenario replacements
-Buy new units when your current ones hit exp cap

goose_2 wrote:I am doing blind playthrough on FM level and am in 1942 halfway through Storming Stalingrad Loving it, please no spoilers, I just got surprised by the small secret group that took my central airfields and am in the midst of knocking them back which has slowed down my drive for the main objectives in Stalingrad.
I would definitely play this scenario different if I was to play it again, but that is my point, you only get to play blind once and those challenges make it more realistic and fun. I should have brought more bombers and at least one AT unit and less Fighters.
So much fun. I have over 60000 in prestige
Find the low down here and my use of units and prestige management.
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 45&t=65111

I had to start my campaign all over when I finished 1941 the first time because my computer pooped on me and I lost all my saved games.
My suggestion is to finish your Grand Campaign as it will be difficult and challenging but you can only do a blind playthrough once. I am enjoying the game now that I am at a Blind Playthrough but since I had to restart I now have a stronger force than I would have had I just had that first blind playthrough. You can only do it blind once and that gives it a more real feel to it.

You could also do both, start over, and continue this first playthrough. Have fun with this amazing game.

I understand but I will still be going in blind from Kharkhov '43 onwards...just better prepared. Trust me, I'm not that great to the point where I'm gonna end up in 1943 with 99k prestige and 13 Tiger's. I might add the caveat if I restart then I cannot save scum. I have to either play the scenario through or start from beginning deployment of each scenario.

Another alternative would be to move the custom difficulty player prestige slider to 150 until you feel like you have a sufficient buffer.

Tricky question... '43 and up are more difficult than earlier years, and your prestige reserve might disappear quickly. You can also keep playing but try to lower the difficulty between scenarios if you are struggling; if you really think you have a bad core you could start over. It would be an even bigger waste of time to replay everything and still not be satisfied with your units/prestige when you go into '43. What kind of core do you have right now, are you sure it's bad? Your examples are giving me the impression that you ended up with a lot of Stukas? Those are fast becoming fodder in '43, and it's mostly building air units that can be problematic in later years (green fighters are very difficult to keep alive). I almost always have one or two 88's, BTW, they can be very effective.

Personally, in this situation, I would probably keep playing for a while but lower the difficulty, there are advanced options to adjust prestige income, I would tweak those and keep learning; in '43-'44, a lot of new units appear that might change your ideas again. Do you have an idea on what upgrade paths you want to try?

Some more small tips:

avoid expensive transports, they count towards the total unit cost when reinforcing. The fast halftrack is way too expensive. Also, some big guns (17cm/21cm) have a slightly cheaper (SdKfz 7) halftrack, the gun might be more expensive but you save some prestige if you want a halftrack for mobility.

Some captured equipment (like KV-1) is better than your own, and can help reduce casualties (less casualties = more prestige in the long run). They will become obsolete, but parking them and later upgrade to Tiger/Panther is viable.

Some units are very quick to gain experience but will rarely get heroes (artillery/bombers), I will often give them only green reinforcements to save on prestige.

AAA is not a very good choice overall, but the 88's can be useful from the beginning. I let them 'practice' on fortifications during '39-'40. Later in the war, self-propelled units can be useful because when AAA gains experience, they do a lot more damage to air units. This also means that 2/3-star enemy AAA will wreck your airforce very quickly, and a habit of giving fighters elite reinforcements during scenarios will bankrupt you. I had Focke-Wulfs simply disappear in a single turn by some 3-star, 3-range Soviet 85mm AAA guns that I hadn't even spotted yet...

Have fun!

I will post my current core when I return home to the game, but I think I am gonna restart on FM and build anew. This will be known as the Prestigious Campaign!

I do have 3 Stukas and probably 6 or 7 FW 190s. As I kept playing I realized that the strat bombers are much more effective in making tanks and artillery lose any ammo rather than outright destroy them. That's why I'm leaning towards Only fighter escorts for my strat bombers and perhaps buying several 88's as time goes on for the AT and AA effect for low cost. I probably should experiment with the AT guns for the massive russian tank attacks that occur later on. The strat bombers are also way better in defense against flak.

I also did make the mistake of having armored transport for all towed and infantry units.

I'm a bit of an optimizer so I find the challenge of going "cheap" to be interesting.

Also, I neglected recon completely in my play through which I am regretting heavily now. I could've used those guys to pick up flags and to cut down on my losses. They also seem decent at chewing up conscripts.

NotOneStepBack wrote:I'm a bit of an optimizer so I find the challenge of going "cheap" to be interesting.

You will HAVE to go cheap to maximize prestige, because the soft cap kicks in once average unit value exceeds 400. Once average value passes the 400 mark, the prestige you earn is reduced correspondingly. (You may well be over the cap already: capture a flag hex and see how much prestige you earn. If it's less than 50, the soft cap has kicked in.) Additional tips for staying closer to 400:

(1) SE units don't count toward the soft cap. That means that your SE units should be the best tanks you can afford, supported by cheaper tanks from the regular core. If you start over, you may wish to begin immediately disbanding new infantry SE units fairly early on, so that most of these slots stay open for tanks.

(2) It really pays to save prestige on artillery. A towed 10.5 cm gun remains effective throughout the war, and costs relatively little. Once the StuG IV appears (in the antitank category), it is a very effective SP gun. Captured SU-122s are great too. Big guns and rocket launchers cost much more prestige, so they should be used sparingly. Within scenarios, give artillery green replacements, as mentioned above.

(3) If you can use AA instead of a fighter for ground force protection, go for it. This is easier to do in defensive scenarios.

(4) Later in the war, when really fast but expensive fighters become available, use these to attack other fighters, and use older and cheaper fighters with lower initiative to attack bombers.

For those curious my old core is:

12x '43 infantry
10x PZ IV G
2x recon
4x 21cm arty
2x '42 nebelwerfer
1x werfhamer
2x StuH '42
2x 88 AT/AA
6x FW 190
3x Stukas
3x HE 111

NotOneStepBack wrote:For those curious my old core is:
1x werfhamer

1x Wurfrahmen, not werfhamer

Sorry for my fixing but as a german speaking guy I just had to.

88mmFlak wrote:

NotOneStepBack wrote:For those curious my old core is:
1x werfhamer

1x Wurfrahmen, not werfhamer

Sorry for my fixing but as a german speaking guy I just had to.

I think he might have did that on purpose, might be his pet name for the unit.

Ok then. But if you are right - what the heck is a werfhamer?

Hey,
@NotOneStepBack:

Don´t you have a Tiger tank in your current early 1943 core? And if not - why not? Just curious. But you really have a big air force (Luftwaffe) with your twelve wings. As a part of my personally recon-force I like it to use at least one cavalry unit, even late-war. Their ability to move quite fast on almost every terrain and weather condition (especially through woods), together with their sight of 3 spaces is not to underestimate!

I don't have a Tiger tank as they just became available in the first scenario where I stopped. I have restarted and already got to Piatek in one night so things are gonna be different.

Another way to maximize the usefulness of relatively inexpensive units is the judicious reassignment of heroes. The immediate temptation, upon earning a particularly valuable hero, is to upgrade the unit to the most awesome type in its class. But that may not be maximally efficient. Let's say you get a range hero on an artillery unit, for example. You could upgrade the unit to a Werfhamer--I mean, Wurfrahmen--thus extending its reach from two to three hexes. OR you could cross-grade the unit to a StuG IIIB with an extended range of two. The Wurfrahmen will be marginally more effective with an increase in range, but the StuG IIIB will be radically more effective--the effect of the increase from 1 to 2 fundamentally changes its capabilities. And the StuG IIIB costs only 221 prestige points, less than half the cost of the Wurfrahmen. The 289 points thus freed up (510 - 221) can be used to upgrade a Panzer IV to a Panther, or something like that. Movement heroes have a similarly radical impact on the effectiveness of towed artillery, while they have only a marginal impact on the effectiveness of SPGs.

I am also playing Easst GLC for the 2nd time after crashing in my first attempt. Have just started 1944. Must admit this time I started with the 1935 MOD, which enabled me to gather prestige etc. earlier on.
Currently have:
12 inf.43
12 pz tiger/panther
4 recon
5 at Elefant
9 art combination wurfrahmen/kc 18/mrs21/Stuh42
2 AA 12.8cm
8 fighter Fw190
4 diveb Me410/Stuka G
1 He.177
Playing at FM throughout, currently 32000 prestige. Lowered amount of prestige after 1942.
First time I had perhaps 8000 prestige at the end of 1942, this time also better due to better deployment and tactical use - know when to retreat!

Wish indeed I had changed SE infantry to tanks, especially in 1943 tanks become main battle force. Also neglected advice for expensive transports, but on the other hand I am anxious of using the Opels for my precious infantry...
Have not made up my mind yet about use of cheaper arty with better rate of fire or opting for full Mrs.21's - by the end of 1943 even these wont punch a hole in seasoned Soviet units, just help to suppress.
AA 88's help out while fighters busy elsewhere, but on the other hand may be usefull once or twice in a scenario. They do pick up experience very quickly, though the game definately has wrong value for hard attack using 88's .
Used the captured KV, Mathilda and Somua for a long time, only upgraded when Tiger/Panther became available, although Mathilda/Somua in reserve pool for the last months.
I seldom use strat bombers... mostly in scenarios with naval units. In other scenarios they always have to be guarded.
Indeed sold most captured equipment.
Until now I overstrength each unit. Although the Panthers and Tigers seem impervious to any Soviet attacks until the end of 1943, it slowly sinks in that the Stalin 1 does start to attack in kamikaze style and slowly eats away the points.
Problem is estimating the amount of core units of each type, especially by 1944 the amount of core starts to become less. I now suddenly have 3 4-star Tigers in my reserve pool - what to do, sell or keep?
Start with AT Panzerjager from the start to gather experience.
I always start with Sturmpanzer arty despite lower attack values, but much better mobility therefore better in attack. I only swith to some towed ary when I feel I also need to be defensive, around mid 1942.
I never let myself be tempted to have DV's only just for magnificint statistics when MV will do, but always use chances when they are offered.
I keep a strict deployment: only attack what you can defend, always attack when being defended by arty, always deploy unit on appropriate hex.
I cover my flanks, cover my flanks and cover my flanks
Maintain bomber/fighter ratio 1/2.

Well, Korsun Pocket is waiting, have to get back to my addiction .

I am going to pick up some 88's early at Piatek and focus on AT tactics. I think I'm going to only end up with 3 or 4 fighters and 4 strat bombers. I'm liking the 10.5 artillery so far. I guess the other question is this early again, I haven't bought any tanks yet, I still have the Pz I's. Is it even worth buying tanks before PZ IV's? Would hate to grab a PZ II or III and have to upgrade it but I forgot when PZ IV first is available

NotOneStepBack wrote:I am going to pick up some 88's early at Piatek and focus on AT tactics. I think I'm going to only end up with 3 or 4 fighters and 4 strat bombers. I'm liking the 10.5 artillery so far. I guess the other question is this early again, I haven't bought any tanks yet, I still have the Pz I's. Is it even worth buying tanks before PZ IV's? Would hate to grab a PZ II or III and have to upgrade it but I forgot when PZ IV first is available

I like Pz3's but do not discount all of the capturable equipment you get. Using those tanks so you can see if you get a decent hero with you can upgrade it to a decent tank later.
My Souma was awarded a +1 movement hero that I am patiently waiting to upgrade to King Tiger

Oh yeah and don't forget the FlamPanzer that you can turn any of your Pz2's to. Nice little mobile Pioneer bunker busters

goose_2 wrote:Oh yeah and don't forget the FlamPanzer that you can turn any of your Pz2's to. Nice little mobile Pioneer bunker busters

Yes I love the FlammPanzer, too. It could be really a great unit type if the AI wouldn´t permanently go after them! The FlammPanzer seems to be a constant primary target for almost every single enemy unit...

robman wrote: for example You could upgrade the unit to a Wurfrahmen, thus extending its reach from two to three hexes. OR you could cross-grade the unit to a StuG IIIB with an extended range of two. The Wurfrahmen will be marginally more effective with an increase in range, but the StuG IIIB will be radically more effective--the effect of the increase from 1 to 2 fundamentally changes its capabilities.

Really good point, worth considering.