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Help a Noob- Med French
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:27 am
by prinny
I have just ordered to Essex Starter army,
I intend to learn the rules of FoG with this army
3 x TC
3 BG of 4 Men at Arms
1 BG of 6 Genoese Crossbowmen
2 BG of 6 French Crossbowmen
1 BG of 8 Voulgiers
1 BG of 8 Mob
It all works out to be 591,
So I am wondering what to get to get it up to 800 points, I was thinking of some scots or should I just go with more men at Arms and crossbowmen.
Please help a lowly Noob
For I do need it
Cheers
Tim
p.s I hope to do a painting diary of this in the model section once the figures arrive
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:34 am
by max_bodycount
Gosh, prinny, I would have to recommend more voltigeurs since they are a little expensive but I like having more drilled foot BGs for my battle line to help them get into place. And as almost all of your troop choices are average quality and you already have three BGs of French knights (your only superior quality choice) you might want to add 1-2 BGs of bidets to give yourself some skirmishers and possible some light guns. Artillery is very useful for a large field army of this time although some Scots spearmen add a nice impact foot capability...
If money is not an issue, buy some of everything since 15mm is definitely cheaper and Essex is readily available. That way not only can you try some variation but most period figures can be used as proxies for another troop and you get more fun doing research and painting! A win-win for you!
Hope this helps,
- Larry F.
San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:36 am
by max_bodycount
And in case I did not mention it, the Esex starter armies are a great launching point for your customized army.
I am considering a few myself but am waiting for the "Swords and Scimitars" armies to show up, esp. Late Crusader.
- Larry F.
San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:06 am
by prinny
Cheers for the reply Max,
Unfortunately I have maxed out the voltigeurs, so more of them are out, I was thinking of some of the Separately deployed valet de guerre to be a reserve or deployed on the wing.
But to be honest I have no idea on the merits of that line of thought.
I will probably end up buying most things on the list just through experimentation

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:48 am
by SirGarnet
3 x TC: First thing I would say is that the bonuses of Inspired Commanders are quite handy in a compact army of Undrilled troops. For control, one IC and 2xTCs would be sufficient, but the reason for another TC is to throw him into combat as well as the others while the IC generally runs things and focuses on bolstering BGs. So I'd spend 80 points here.
3 BG of 4 Men at Arms: In 15mm this is theoretically almost 20 MU of Knightly frontage for your battle front, In practice it may be smaller as you may decide to deploy each BG in a battleline with 3 in the first rank and 1 in back to fill in for losses.
4-base BGs are good - the only issue with 4s for Knights is that one base lost is 25% and therefore a -1 on all Cohesion Tests, but Superiors hold up well. This is enough Knights, but if you want more you could add two to strengthen one BG that would be the main thrust (and where adding your TC in the front rank would be most profitable), or even add 4 for another BG that would allow for two serious attacking forces. I would suggest a 4th Knights BG of drilled Average mercenaries, since being drilled under a Commander makes it a useful and flexible reserve or flank-end BG in an assault. I would spend 84 points here
The purpose of the other troops is mainly to fix the enemy's attention and occupy his troops while your Knights move to strike and smash suitable targets. Because your opponent is waiting anxiously to see where your Knights deploy in order to counter them, it can be advantageous to delay deployment of the Knights toward the end of the order of march. To do so, however, is to run the risk that you can't properly deploy the Knights because of mistakes made in positioning and spacing in earlier deployment. So you will want to form a couple alternative battle plans once you see the terrain, picking one based on how the enemy deploys, and actually do drill practice deploying units on the table repeatedly until you have a keen sense of how troops can go down in the deployment process depending on enemy deployments. Having a meterstick to pre-measure positions and gaps is very useful. Since a Knight BG is undrilled and up to 4 base-widths wide when deployed for action, this is more important than with narrower-frontage or more maneuverable BGs.
Valets de Guerre: I would get 6 bases of these Armoured Average Undrilled Lancer Swordsmen Cavalry for 72 points (4 bases is OK too, but I like 6 for durability and overlaps). Undrilled Cavalry maneuver better than Undrilled Knights, and these are formidable troops in their own right that can support the flank of attacking Knights, chase after enemy Skirmishers, make for the camp, or other tactics that use its speed advantage.
With this you have 5 shock mounted BGs, for one massive or two smaller attack brigades, and a force of 5 BG of foot below who may draw attention if needed but whose ultimate ambition is to avoid getting broken so the army can sustain the loss of 4 of its mounted BGs and still keep the last one fighting on.
1 BG of 6 Genoese Crossbowmen
2 BG of 6 French Crossbowmen
Crossbowmen: I don't value Crossbows highly since they have good penetration against heavily armoured knights but don't get any bonuses for lightly or unarmoured mounted, and take a negative POA against most foot (then requiring a 5-6 to hit). They can do damage, but are best concentrated with converged shooting. Longbows are much better, and you can get those with Scottish Allies, but the question is whether you really need a lot of slow shooting or instead just to get your Knights onto their targets.
I would take the required French Crossbowmen either as 8 Poor Drilled or 8 Avg Undrilled (with 8 mobs instead of 12).
I would then add the French Longbows, 4 Unp Poor Und Longbow @4 points, for 16 total, and keep them near the crossbows to aim at the same target. Just avoid enemy contacting them! Note that the Mob behind these archers can provide rear support for both of them, though you may want it elsewhere.
I would also take the 6 Spanish Crossbowmen Light Foot as a BG of six @ 30 pts since are the only LF available in the later period, and having them precede your Knights and absorb shooting can enable them to charge without taking many storms of arrows. When in range of the enemy they can launch their own uncontrolled charge through the friendly screen if they fail their test not to charge, in which case they can charge without taking any shooting at all (though usually it is best to withdraw the skirmishers and let the Knights charge together normally).
1 BG of 8 Voulgiers: I actually prefer the earlier list with Pavisier Spearmen, because Heavy weapons in Impact count only against foot, but this is still a solid BG that can cover the crossbowmen as they help cover the flank of the Knights or attempt to pin the enemy. Just try to focus it on well armoured troops, foot is best, for maximum value.
1 BG of 8 Mob: Worth the increase in BG count and as a camp guard or poor quality terrain troops (since they are Medium Foot for terrain purposes). They are also useful as rear support for the poor missile troops.
The earlier list includes Bidets, more cheap LF, and Pavisiers, which are preferable to Voulgiers against mounted in Impact. It loses the Valets, who are useful.
This totals 56 bases in 10 BGs at 799 points, in order of march:
IC, 3xTC
1 6 Spanish Crossbowmen LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Crossbow @5 =30
2 6 Valets de Guerre Cav Armoured Average Undrilled Lancers Swordsmen @12 = 72
3 4 French Longbowmen M Unprotected Poor Undrilled Longbow @ 4 = 16
4 8 French Crossbowmen MF Protected Average Undrilled Crossbow @ 6 = 48
5 8 Voulgiers HF Armoured Average Undrilled Heavy weapon @ 9 = 72
6 8 Ribauds and Levies Mob Unprotected Poor Undrilled @ 2 = 16
7 4 Mercenary Knights Kn Heavily armoured Average Drilled Lancers Swordsmen @ 21 = 84
8 4 French Men at Arms Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled Lancers Swordsmen @ 23 = 92
9 4 French Men at Arms Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled Lancers Swordsmen @ 23 = 92
10 4 French Men at Arms Kn Heavily armoured Superior Undrilled Lancers Swordsmen @ 23 = 92
The idea here is to save the Knights for last, but, if facing an opponent who may hunt the infantry, you might move the Knights up in the order. In certain circumstances it may also make sense to dismount the Knights.
I hope this is useful fodder for further comments.
Mike
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:31 pm
by prinny
Cheers for that reply MikeK,
That was a great help, and will give me something to think over while im at work this week
I think the idea of a 6 BG of knights is a great idea, will have to have a play around with the points to get it to fit.
Tim