Slitherine

Um ... this seems wrong but ...if I have the initiative can I place Hvy Art in terrain that isn't difficult (p.146) as an ambush ?

Or does troops not able to deploy in terrain where they have no movement allowence ( HvyArt can't move = no movement allowence) , also on p.146 mean they can't ?

Could they deploy in good going as an ambush ( eg behind a hill ) ?

I've probably missed something obvious here......

Amra wrote:Um ... this seems wrong but ...if I have the initiative can I place Hvy Art in terrain that isn't difficult (p.146) as an ambush ?

Or does troops not able to deploy in terrain where they have no movement allowence ( HvyArt can't move = no movement allowence) , also on p.146 mean they can't ?

Could they deploy in good going as an ambush ( eg behind a hill ) ?

I've probably missed something obvious here......

You didn't miss the obvious thing, but you seem to doubt it for some reason.

Or does troops not able to deploy in terrain where they have no movement allowence ( HvyArt can't move = no movement allowence) , also on p.146 mean they can't ?

This does indeed mean that they can't ambush.

I think this is reasonable - the large teams of men and draught animals needed to get them into position during the night would be a noisy give-away.

The rules preclude placement in impassable terrain or rivers. Beyond that, they say "Heavy artillery cannot be deployed in difficult terrain. Other troops cannot be deployed in terrain in which they have no movement allowance."

The second sentence specifically excludes Heavy artillery. Therefore, Heavy Artillery can be deployed in Uneven or Rough terrain.

You could ambush behind a hill or any other terrain so long as the "not visible" test on p142 is met.

Mike

MikeK wrote:The rules preclude placement in impassable terrain or rivers. Beyond that, they say "Heavy artillery cannot be deployed in difficult terrain. Other troops cannot be deployed in terrain in which they have no movement allowance."

The second sentence specifically excludes Heavy artillery. Therefore, Heavy Artillery can be deployed in Uneven or Rough terrain.

You could ambush behind a hill or any other terrain so long as the "not visible" test on p142 is met.

Mike

That'll teach me to reply without actually reading the rules.

Hmm , so I can place Hvy Art up to half way in on the board (in the flank thirds) , providing the "not visible" test is met and they are not in difficult ?

Amra wrote:Hmm , so I can place Hvy Art up to half way in on the board (in the flank thirds) , providing the "not visible" test is met and they are not in difficult ?

Yes. Even better on p.132 "Disorder Effects" last bullet point says that "Heavy Artillery are assumed to be in prepared positions and therefore are not disordered by terrain.". So not only is it allowed, but you're not penalised for doing it.

OK the Mongols just got a surprise for everyone

Thanks All

That'll teach me to reply without actually reading the rules.

. . . one copy each for home computer, office, and travel, as well as the coffee table and game room sets.

OK the Mongols just got a surprise for everyone

Yes put the Arty in ambush just beyond the crest of a hill or just beyond some concealing terrain. They'll be surprised.

LOL , no think lateral Art behind hill aims left to right across centre , enemy runs at centre target = art on flank

Art is one of your ambush markers forward on the side you flank march , enemy deploys to meet yr flank march , guns uncover .

These arent to match win they are to annoy , cause redeployment and tests . Remember I only need hit you 2 plus shoot you w Arty and you test - no matter the size of your BG

Still a massive gamble

philqw78 wrote:Still a massive gamble

Sometimes it is worth the gamble just to have the troops see action. I have this flock of scythed chariots . . . .

Sorry if I have missed the point on this thread but it started about Heavy Artillery in ambush, is it allowed? Surely the answer is no? As p 142 explains, BGs can only be placed in ambush in terrain they can move in....Heavy Artillery cannot move in any terrain, not even open, so can never be placed in ambush, not even in open terrain behind a hill etc in a position invisible from the enemy deployment area.

That's not to say you cannot deploy your Heavy Artillery in uneven or rough terrain, you clearly can as p146 says, but even deployed in such in an "invisible" position, it still can't ambush.

Martin

WhiteKnight wrote:Sorry if I have missed the point on this thread but it started about Heavy Artillery in ambush, is it allowed? Surely the answer is no? As p 142 explains, BGs can only be placed in ambush in terrain they can move in....Heavy Artillery cannot move in any terrain, not even open, so can never be placed in ambush, not even in open terrain behind a hill etc in a position invisible from the enemy deployment area.

Martin

When I read that I was thinking it applied to BGs that move (that they must be able to move out), but literally you are correct.

WhiteKnight wrote:Sorry if I have missed the point on this thread but it started about Heavy Artillery in ambush, is it allowed? Surely the answer is no? As p 142 explains, BGs can only be placed in ambush in terrain they can move in....Heavy Artillery cannot move in any terrain, not even open, so can never be placed in ambush, not even in open terrain behind a hill etc in a position invisible from the enemy deployment area.

That's not to say you cannot deploy your Heavy Artillery in uneven or rough terrain, you clearly can as p146 says, but even deployed in such in an "invisible" position, it still can't ambush.

Martin

Correct

Damm I was so happy with MikeK's point about the wording sepcifically excluding HArty too

That RBS tag kind of trumps all though ...

Ah well back to thinking up other ways to make Mongols float like butterflies and sting like bees ..

Don't think those mongols will have too many probs doing the butterfly/bee thing! Choose an IC, lots of bow-armed LH and Cav, then choose to fight on the steppes...these are the types of armies that keep doing just fine in competitions providing you are patient and keep out of close combat until you've blown the opponent's cohesion! It may take a while to win, but you'll grind 'em down with your shooting and outmanouvre them on most occasions.

Yup...there speaks a victim of the above tactics! So if it's hard to beat 'em....wonder who makes the best steppe horse archer figs? LOL

Martin

Amra wrote:Damm I was so happy with MikeK's point about the wording sepcifically excluding HArty too

That RBS tag kind of trumps all though ...

Ah well back to thinking up other ways to make Mongols float like butterflies and sting like bees ..

Well, there was never much chance of heavy artillery floating like a butterfly .

Amra wrote:Damm I was so happy with MikeK's point about the wording sepcifically excluding HArty too

That RBS tag kind of trumps all though ...

Ah well back to thinking up other ways to make Mongols float like butterflies and sting like bees ..

Perhaps an Army Design thread on Mongols? The army seems so small without taking some of the downgrades or allies.

Mike