Slitherine

Did Light Foot and Light Horse run around with so much freedom of manoeuvre in this period of warfare ?
These troop types are extremely hard to catch.
I have been dancing around with 4-5 Cavalier units trying to catch some Dragoons & Commanded Shot.
Even getting 3 units of Cavaliers adjacent and ( I thought ) pinning a Dragoon unit, it still escaped...
Were Dragoons this good in the ECW ? Commanded shot can outrun Cavalry in the open...

I have been playing some Italian Wars games ( MP games ) where we all just dance around shooting and chasing each other.
The more skirmishing units the better seems to be the way to go.

I have been playing some Italian Wars games ( MP games ) where we all just dance around shooting and chasing each other.

Isn't that the definition of skirmish?

jomni wrote:

I have been playing some Italian Wars games ( MP games ) where we all just dance around shooting and chasing each other.

Isn't that the definition of skirmish?

It is surprising and frustrating that light foot can consistently outrun mounted units that start adjacent to them.

keyth wrote:

jomni wrote:

I have been playing some Italian Wars games ( MP games ) where we all just dance around shooting and chasing each other.

Isn't that the definition of skirmish?

It is surprising and frustrating that light foot can consistently outrun mounted units that start adjacent to them.

Assuming that the mounted have a 4 square move (i.e. not early Gendarmes) and start their whole turn adjacent to the light foot, they should have a more than 50% chance of catching them.

Gendarmes will have more trouble catching them as their move is the same as that of the light foot.

The next version of the game will have less light foot in Italian Wars armies, substituting medium foot for some of them.

Dragoons, ECW ones at any rate, are always said to be mounted on nags. Perhaps they should have 14 AP instead of 16 AP, since Gendarmes have 12 AP and Cavaliers have 16 AP.

w_michael wrote:Dragoons, ECW ones at any rate, are always said to be mounted on nags. Perhaps they should have 14 AP instead of 16 AP, since Gendarmes have 12 AP and Cavaliers have 16 AP.

Possibly, although we have worked on the principle that they have to carry less so don't need to be high quality horses. Anyway, it doesn't address the gendarmes vs light foot issue which is I think what was causing the most angst.

rbodleyscott wrote:

w_michael wrote:Dragoons, ECW ones at any rate, are always said to be mounted on nags. Perhaps they should have 14 AP instead of 16 AP, since Gendarmes have 12 AP and Cavaliers have 16 AP.

Possibly, although we have worked on the principle that they have to carry less so don't need to be high quality horses. Anyway, it doesn't address the gendarmes vs light foot issue which is I think what was causing the most angst.

Perhaps Light Foot should take a Cohesion Test if they attempt to move and they start adjacent to non-light mounted. That would encourage them to keep their distance, and they would then travel a longer route to avoid the charge arc.

I would point out the light foot are only adjacent at the end of the cavalier's move. Unless I'm behind their flank my light foot have an empty space between them and the target when they shoot. They still occasionally get run down if the charge is vertical or horizontal, at the diagonal I get away. They only harassing and weakening cavaliers who refuse to engage with my pike and shot units, very un-royalist behavior that deserves to be punished whenever possible.

Andre

I think the point is that the Commanded Shot are on foot carrying 12 apostles and a heavy Matchlock yet can out run a Cavalier carrying a white hanky and a pistol, turn and out shoot the Cavalier with impunity.

Assuming that the mounted have a 4 square move (i.e. not early Gendarmes) and start their whole turn adjacent to the light foot, they should have a more than 50% chance of catching them.

Gendarmes will have more trouble catching them as their move is the same as that of the light foot.

The next version of the game will have less light foot in Italian Wars armies, substituting medium foot for some of them.

Horsemen having only a 50% chance to catch guys on foot standing right next to them is really silly.

Skirmishers can also constantly walk behind a horse unit, who will never be able to charge them because the horse has to turn more than 45 degrees.

Perhaps a good solution is LF can only move 2 grids AND all enemy formed mounted exert a ZOC vs LF in all arcs. (unless its commanded shot moving into a grid adjacent with a friendly mounted horse ,determined horse or cavalier ie the protected commanded shot rule)

If skirmishers can only move two squares they will never be used. They must move faster than heavy foot to be of any use at all.
Personally I don't see why commanded shot get to evade, I think they are only very small units of medium foot musketeers with a very specific role, to support mounted. I think they shouldn't be able to evade.
But lets be clear about the original situation. Warlord did not have a line of cavaliers pushing my skirmishers back so he could get into my cavalry. He had a single unit of cavaliers trying to move around a forest, when my dragoons and commanded shot emerged from the forest and shot at them he moved some more cavaliers to support the original unit. I was able to destroy the original unit with shooting as he didn't pull it out fast enough (most of my shots only ever got 2 or 3 hits). Once his other units got too close my foot withdrew into the safety of the forest. The correct use of dragoons and small blocks of foot in that situation I feel.

awesum4 wrote: Personally I don't see why commanded shot get to evade, I think they are only very small units of medium foot musketeers with a very specific role, to support mounted. I think they shouldn't be able to evade.
.

Yes Medium Foot classification for Commanded Shot makes sense to me too.

KateMicucci wrote:

Assuming that the mounted have a 4 square move (i.e. not early Gendarmes) and start their whole turn adjacent to the light foot, they should have a more than 50% chance of catching them.
Horsemen having only a 50% chance to catch guys on foot standing right next to them is really silly.
Skirmishers can also constantly walk behind a horse unit, who will never be able to charge them because the horse has to turn more than 45 degrees.

Something needs to be done here for sure.

w_michael wrote:Dragoons, ECW ones at any rate, are always said to be mounted on nags. Perhaps they should have 14 AP instead of 16 AP, since Gendarmes have 12 AP and Cavaliers have 16 AP.

I agree.

I am playing against the Cornish Royalist '43 army and have seen the Uber Skirmisher, the Cornish Musketeer..!!

260 man above average Light Foot unit,12 APs. 72 CC rating, 38 Shooting. Makes mincemeat of Commanded Shot.

Should these lads be Medium Foot ?

Couple of other questions re Light Foot/skirmishers

1, Should skirmishers get a negative factor when shooting ? ( as non skirmishers suffer -34% when shooting at skirmishers?)
This to simulate the dispersed formation

2, Should skirmishers be on a larger ' base ' ?
again to simulate their formation

3, Should skirmishers be able to interpenetrate their friends?
Normal and evade moves, seems realistic.

4, Could skirmishers actually run about the battlefield carrying the heavy, cumbersome matchlock, 12 apostles ( in the Cornishmen's case 13 as a flagon of cider would surely be attached as well ) a musket rest, evading from Dragoons and other mounted troops ?

This is the only major issue with this game: unssupported foot soldiers evading attacking horse units easily. They should be overrun by cavalery units.