Slitherine

OK,

If my army includes an allied contingent then can I send it on a flank march with a general from the main army?

As far as I can see the flank marching rules states that an allied commander must take all of his own contingent, but that doesn't seem to preclude a general from the main army taking part of the allied command?

Just wondering...

The rules state (Under flank marching)...

"An allied commander can only make an outflanking march with troops from his own ally contingent and must take his whole contingent"

I think you're asking - does the converse apply? Can a SG take an allied BG as part of his BG?

The rules aren't specific, but I'd read this as "no". However, its ambiguous in that you could argue that as it's not specifically excluded it should be allowed. Perhaps a clarification to go on the web site?

I think you're asking - does the converse apply? Can a SG take an allied BG as part of his BG?

Indeed.

The allied commander is not actually flank marching - but does that stop some (or all) of his BG's from taking part in a flank march by a general from the main army (slap yourself for mentioning sub-general)

Whilst the aroma of Gorgonzola is pleasantly wafting around I don't see anywhere which says that I can't do this!

dave_r wrote:

I think you're asking - does the converse apply? Can a SG take an allied BG as part of his BG?

Indeed.

The allied commander is not actually flank marching - but does that stop some (or all) of his BG's from taking part in a flank march by a general from the main army (slap yourself for mentioning sub-general)

Whilst the aroma of Gorgonzola is pleasantly wafting around I don't see anywhere which says that I can't do this!

It may well be allowed but it is a touch on the silly side of things. As an allied BG can only benefit from the allied commander it would IMO be asking for trouble.

As an allied BG can only benefit from the allied commander it would IMO be asking for trouble

Well, not really. Since you can have your allied general lurking with intent awaiting their arrival then as soon as they arrive he leaps into the fray.

The general that flank marched with them then legs it towards his own troops.

Given the 28" move of generals per turn I don't see it being a problem. Especially if you flank march all of the generals command and just leave the general on table.

How are you moving commanders 28" per turn?

KingHassan wrote:How are you moving commanders 28" per turn?

7MU as a normal move, 7 more as a second move (need to be out of 6MU from the enemy for these two), 7 in your JAP and then another 7 in the opponents JAP.

I knew of the permitted 21" in my own turn and the additional 7" in my opponents turn but consider that two turns.

However fast they move I think sending an allied commander across the table to link up with a possible allied flank march is a bit silly and maybe poor play.

Where would he displace to if contacted or brought into enemy missile range?

Why can't any of my opponents try such ventures?

However fast they move I think sending an allied commander across the table to link up with a possible allied flank march is a bit silly and maybe poor play.

It is just a means of flank marching with an allies troops using a Field Commander from the main army - thereby not having to spend the extra 15 pts upgrading the allied general from a TC to a FC.

Where would he displace to if contacted or brought into enemy missile range?

Any Friendly BG - he would lurk on the side of the table the allies are appearing (probably with another BG) and then when his troops arrive would simply run over to them immediately.

dave_r wrote: It is just a means of flank marching with an allies troops using a Field Commander from the main army - thereby not having to spend the extra 15 pts upgrading the allied general from a TC to a FC.

If I was umpiring this cheese, as the sub-commander FC is not in line of command, I wouldn't let
you count him for the allied troops, and the flank march would dice as the worst...



Rgds,
Peter

If I was umpiring this cheese, as the sub-commander FC is not in line of command, I wouldn't let
you count him for the allied troops, and the flank march would dice as the worst

But that isn't what the rules say!!! I am not saying it is right or anything just saying it is legal

There are disadvantages as well, mainly in that you will only have two functioning generals on table until the flank march arrives.

Just because it is legal does not make it smell any less

The definition of cheesy is something that the rules allow but that is just plain wierd.

I think that as the rules stand you can send allied BGs on an outflanking march without the allied general. I am not sure why you would really want to do it or if it would be advantageous but at present I am struggling to find a reason it can't be done.

As previously mentioned it is a cheap way of flank marching allies with a Field Commander.

If I have three generals with the main army - say an IC, FC and TC. Then I have a TC with the allies (cos he's cheap), then if I want to flank march with the allies troops I can send the FC to do it, hence getting the +1 on the flank marching dice.

I did notice your idea earlier in the post but to be honest if I was going to have a FC for outflanking marches and be thinking of doing the outflanking march with allied BGs I would just get the ally general as the FC in the first place.

Essentially you are cutting an army that has spent 190 points on commanders down to one that only has 115 points worth of commanders until you make the roll to get the outflanking march on table. I don't see a huge advantage in that at all. The fact I think its a silly idea doesn't make it less cheesy, just silly and cheesy.

hammy wrote:I did notice your idea earlier in the post but to be honest if I was going to have a FC for outflanking marches and be thinking of doing the outflanking march with allied BGs I would just get the ally general as the FC in the first place.

Essentially you are cutting an army that has spent 190 points on commanders down to one that only has 115 points worth of commanders until you make the roll to get the outflanking march on table. I don't see a huge advantage in that at all. The fact I think its a silly idea doesn't make it less cheesy, just silly and cheesy.

Well it certainly isn't what we intended. OTOH it would be such a stupid thing to do that it probably isn't worth additional verbiage to close the loophole.

I find that the largest disadvantage of sending a flank march at all is having one less general on the table until it arrives rather than less BGs on the table.

Reducing youself from 4 generals to 2 until a flank march arrives is a very stupid ploy indeed.

Moreover, I think any umpire would be reasonable to rule against the FC effect counting - not being "in line of command" he cannot "lead" troops comprising the flank march. Sure, it's arguable, but would you want to rely on an umpire ruling in favour of your FC counting?

We could certainly clarify it thus in the FAQ, but I am tempted to give the cheese-mongers enough rope to hang themselves.

Reducing youself from 4 generals to 2 until a flank march arrives is a very stupid ploy indeed.

Depends on the army. If you are going to focus on shooting and not close combat then all you need is an IC wafting around in the middle of the table to do the job for you. You can use another general to bolster BG's.

I also would say you don't have to send all of your allied contingent - there is a 1/4 chance of a flank march turning up with a field commander so you shouldn't have to wait too long anyway.

dave_r wrote:

Reducing youself from 4 generals to 2 until a flank march arrives is a very stupid ploy indeed.

Depends on the army. If you are going to focus on shooting and not close combat then all you need is an IC wafting around in the middle of the table to do the job for you. You can use another general to bolster BG's.

You might focus on shooting but perhaps your opponent won't.

Yes, but if you army is entirely light horse that isn't going to matter is it?

dave_r wrote: But that isn't what the rules say!!! I am not saying it is right or anything just saying it is legal

Except this is what they do say "Commanders can only effect battle groups for which they
are in line of command". A sub-commander is NOT in line of command for allied battle
groups, so the FC doesn't count.

In addition, "all battle groups must be in command range of their commander at the end
of their first move on to the table" (my italics). For the allied battle groups, this will be the allied
commander. Good luck!

Rgds,
Peter

dave_r wrote:Yes, but if you army is entirely light horse that isn't going to matter is it?

At some point yes it is. You will run out of room.