Slitherine

Hello all,

Hoping folks here can provide feedback on this army list. This is 800 points

. CnC FC
. Sub Commander TC
. Sub Commander TC
1 Agema Cv Armoured, Elite,Drilled,Lancers,Swordmen
2 Foot Companions HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Pikemen,Pikemen
3 Foot Companions HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Pikemen,Pikemen -
4 Agrianian Javalinmen LF Unprotected,Superior,Undrilled,Javelins,Light spear -
5 Thracian Light Horse LH Unprotected,Average,Undrilled,Javelins,Light spear -
6 Hypaspists HF Protected,Superior,Drilled,Pikemen,Pikemen -
7 Elephants EL Average Undrilled - - - -
8 Elephants EL Average Undrilled - - - -
9 Greek Merc Hoplites HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Offensive spearmen,Spearmen -
10 Greek Merc Hoplites HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Offensive spearmen,Spearmen -
11 Companion Cavalry Cv Armoured,Superior,Drilled,Lancers,Swordmen -
12 Rhodian Slingers LF Unprotected,Average,Drilled

I am thinking that this will be my next tournament army. Any thoughts or experiences on changes needed are welcome.

<BRIAN>[/list]

Looks reasonable to me but you haven't included BG sizes. I assume the cavalry are in 4s, the pike in 8s and the spear in 6s?

If so the spear may be a weak point, I don't like 6s of protected average troops in general. They are rather too vulnerable to missiles for my taste.

For 800 pts, I would prefer to take 4xtc or ic and 2xtc.

Personally, I don't think it's worth having the elite agema, as superior cav with a general leading is plenty good enough.

If this is 15mm and a 6x4 table, another BG of LH will be useful, maybe even two?

I wouldn't have the elephants, in my experience they're not all they're cut out to be and they cut down the pike and companion count and these two will win the battle if all goes well! Likewise I wonder about the hoplites, the army needs some MF in case of roug terrain...the Thracians and/or Iphicrateans?

Just some thougts

Martin

The spear are in 6 base BG, the Cavalry are in 4 BG, and the pike blocks are all 12 stand.

Ninthplain wrote:The spear are in 6 base BG, the Cavalry are in 4 BG, and the pike blocks are all 12 stand.

i played alex.mace in a tournament here, and discovered that it's highly advisable to pay the extra to be able to regrade the pike and field them as MF, light spear/swords.

it's only 1pt per base, and well worth it.

you can look at the terrain on table, state your intention before you deploy, then put the stated pike BGs out as MF.

so maybe go for three (or four) BG of 8 pikes, paying the extra 8 points per BG.

and more importantly! you can't field the elephants and more than 6 bases of hoplites. (those points can probably be used for the regrade)

I must have missed the elephant or hoplites contraint. I need to look the list over some more.

Ninthplain wrote:I must have missed the elephant or hoplites contraint. I need to look the list over some more.

don't fret. so did i till a competition judge pointed it out

luckily it was when i submitted the list! i proceeded to argue that it was legal, then realised to count backwards when looking at BC numbers.

DOH!

Does the ability to substitute the HF Pike for MF Lt Spear/sword apply to all pike or just the Hypaspists? How many MF Spear/Sword figures would you need ot cover this option?

I went over the list and I have not found any constraint for Greek Mercenary hoplites and elephants. There is an issue if you want to use Hypaspists as hoplites but not the Greeks in the optional list.

It looks to me like you can run 0 to 36 bases of the mercenaries.

Are these the ones the judge had an issue with?

The last bullet point on p45 says "Options only permitted from 328 BC or later cannot be used with more than 6 bases of Greek mercenary or allied traditional hoplites". The list shows elephants are only available from 326 BC.

While we are on the subject, I was curious about the option to deploy pike as MF. The list says a unit of 12 becomes 2x6, and a unit of 8 remains 8. What about a unit of 10?

Presumably the BG would stay at 10 since you can't do 2x5 and 1x4+1x6 would result in a BG sized smaller than would normally be allowed for them. Or perhaps I am overlooking something and one cannot have a BG size of 10?

It means that if you take the pikemen in BGs of 10 they cannot be exchanged for MF.

stevesykes wrote:The last bullet point on p45 says "Options only permitted from 328 BC or later cannot be used with more than 6 bases of Greek mercenary or allied traditional hoplites". The list shows elephants are only available from 326 BC.

and that's what got me. took a moment to realise that 326BC is later than 328BC.

I'm still waiting on this book myself so if someone knows would they midn briefly explaining how many Pike may deploy as MF adn what are they armed with? I may need to rebase some troops.

thanks

Scott

Agesilaus wrote:I'm still waiting on this book myself so if someone knows would they midn briefly explaining how many Pike may deploy as MF adn what are they armed with? I may need to rebase some troops.

thanks

Scott

all the Hypaspists and some of the foot companion pikes can be regraded to fight as MF light spearmen 'with javelins' instead of with pikes. the army description says this is to allow the various historical interpretations to be fielded...

Ninthplain wrote:Hello all,

Hoping folks here can provide feedback on this army list. This is 800 points

. CnC FC
. Sub Commander TC
. Sub Commander TC
1 Agema Cv Armoured, Elite,Drilled,Lancers,Swordmen
2 Foot Companions HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Pikemen,Pikemen
3 Foot Companions HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Pikemen,Pikemen -
4 Agrianian Javalinmen LF Unprotected,Superior,Undrilled,Javelins,Light spear -
5 Thracian Light Horse LH Unprotected,Average,Undrilled,Javelins,Light spear -
6 Hypaspists HF Protected,Superior,Drilled,Pikemen,Pikemen -
7 Elephants EL Average Undrilled - - - -
8 Elephants EL Average Undrilled - - - -
9 Greek Merc Hoplites HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Offensive spearmen,Spearmen -
10 Greek Merc Hoplites HF Protected,Average,Drilled,Offensive spearmen,Spearmen -
11 Companion Cavalry Cv Armoured,Superior,Drilled,Lancers,Swordmen -
12 Rhodian Slingers LF Unprotected,Average,Drilled

I am thinking that this will be my next tournament army. Any thoughts or experiences on changes needed are welcome.

<BRIAN>[/list]

Not much wrong with that list I’d say.

My own preferences are for troop commanders so I’d probably drop the FC CinC to a TC

I’d definitely take the Greek Hoplites as MF. Your pikes have the HF open ground sown up, and you need troops that can fight in terrain. Those mercenary Greeks fit the bill!

I’d drop one BG of elephants and spend the difference on skirmishers.

Here’s the 800pt list i use, to compare...

BG
- 4 Commanders TF
1 6 Agrarians LF, U/pr, Sup, U/dr, Jav Lt.Sp
2 4 Slingers LF, U/pr, Avg, Dr, Sling
3 4 Slingers LF, U/pr, Avg, Dr, Sling
4 4 Thracians LH, U/pr, Avg, U/dr, Jav. Lt.Sp
5 4 Agema Cv, Arm, Elite, Dr, Lance, Swd
6 4 Greek Cavalry Cv, Arm, Avg, Dr, Lt. Sp, Swd
7 4 Greek Cavalry Cv, Arm, Avg, Dr, Lt. Sp, Swd
8 2 Elephants El
9 6 Greek Hoplites MF, Prt, Avg, Dr, OffSp
10 6 Greek Hoplites MF, Prt, Avg, Dr, OffSp
11 12 Hypaspists HF, Prt, Sup, Dr, Pike
12 12 Foot Companions HF, Prt, Avg, Dr, Pike
13 12 Foot Companions HF, Prt, Avg, Dr, Pike

Not dissimilar to yours really, but it has the capacity to contest a crucial piece of terrain. You’ll note I also field 4 commanders…I find these invaluable to increase mobility during intitial movements and for bolstering multiple BGs once in contact.

One thing I would say is look at the order you deploy your BGs. Try and ensure that your skirmishers go down first. I put my cavalry down in the middle order as they can redeploy fairly quickly. The pikes go down last as there are where the action is for the Macedoniains. I want to see where the bulk of the opponent’s formed troops are so that the pikes can line up to hit the best target.

Ultimately it comes down to how you play the army. For me the Macedonians are tactically simple. Essentially, everything else in the army is a delivery system for the pikes. The phalanx is your strength and you have to get it into the heart of your opponent’s strength as soon as possible to get the win before your flanks fold….

That’s what seems to work for me, although I’m sure there are other valid opinions to the contrary…

I have been building what I have, so here is my plan... What does the common wisdom think?

Inspired commander
2 Troop commanders
2x6 Companion Cavalry
4 Prodromoi
6 Eastern Light Horse
12 Hypaspists (as pike)
3x8 Companion Foot (pike)
6 Agrianian javelinmen
4 Cretan archers
4 Macedonian archers
6 Greek mercenary hoplites

790 points...

I don't know how I would fill it in further... I could swap the Prodromoi and 2 other light horse for 2 elephants. Beyond that, I'll have to start buying additional models.

Its all personal preference, for my money I would keep the elephants as they are a great anchor for your pike flanks.

I now only run my pikes in 12s.

Spend the min on Lt foot and get cheap Lt foot, its only purpose is to play around for a while in front of your army and annoy the other guy. It never seems to kill anything like its own cost in pts.

Thracians are good, and I would get rid of the hoplites.

Commanders – IC + 3 TC are the way to go, beats 3 FC everytime. With 3 TC you can support almost all the critical combats and rally troops. The IC +1 is worth gold as it seems almost every cohesion test is won or lost by only one pip.

You need to check the army list. You can have a maximum of 6 Companion bases, not 2 x 4. I have rejected the Agema, in my hands they always come armed with sticks of celery
I think you must take an IC (What's an Alex Mac without the Man??), it gives a lot of benefit provided he doesn't fight!

My current list is:
IC and 2 TC
4 Companions
2 x 4 Thessalian HC
6 Eastern LH
6 Sogdian HA
8 Hypaspist Pk
3 x 8 Pk
6 LF Jv
6 LF Bw
8 Iphekratean MF Off Sp
8 Thracian MF Off Sp

A possible variant would be dropping a Pk or MF BG and getting the Prodromoi to get +4 PBI and perhaps enough ap to buy the Hypaspists as MF.

Regards

Dave M

Hi,

Any comments on this list as a first shot at an Alexandrian Macedonianlist ? Currently at 795 point by my count.

Any thoughts on whether 3x8 vs 2x 12 for foot companion BG's? I decided on 8's because that way the Thracians can provide rear support for 2 of them if there isn't bad ground to be contested but I'm not completely decided.

As a separate question, are Greek Mercenary Iphiktrean Hoplites coverd by the limitation of no more than 6 Greek Mercenary or Allied Traditional hoplites after 328 BC? I assumed they are but wasn't sure of the author's intent.

IC, 3 TC - 24 mounted stands, Initiative +3

1 6 Agrianians LF Unprotected Superior Undrilled Javelins Light spear Other
2 4 Cretan Archers LF Unprotected Superior Drilled Bow - Other
3 4 Rhodian Slingers LF Unprotected Average Drilled Sling - Other
4 6 Eastern Light Horse LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear
5 6 Bactrians LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow Light spear Other
6 4 Agema Cv Armoured Elite Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
7 4 Companions Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Lancers Swordmen
8 8 Thracians MF Protected Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordmen
9 8 Foot Companions HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
10 8 Foot Companions HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
11 8 Foot Companions HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
12 8 Hypaspists HF Protected Superior Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen
13 4 Prodromoi LH Unprotected Average Drilled - Lancers Swordmen

8 pts extra to allow Hypaspists the option of MI, Light spear, sword.