Slitherine

I've been very pleased by the reception of the Three Kingdoms Koreans and the Kofun Japanese, both of which sell extremely well. I'm very glad that I'm helping you put interesting armies on the tabletop. However, I've also had some that really didn't take off, like the Yayoi Japanese and the Inca. Both remain heavily in the red and I fear always will be.

So I thought I'd take the pulse a bit before making another "ancients" range. Any ideas as to what you'd like to see that's not available at present? I sometimes get requests for Northern and Southern Dynasties Chinese--if so which? I think they were rather different in appearance?

An idea could be Samnites, some figure avaible, but the only good ones are Xyston, which is not compatible with other makers...

khurasan_miniatures wrote:I've been very pleased by the reception of the Three Kingdoms Koreans and the Kofun Japanese, both of which sell extremely well. I'm very glad that I'm helping you put interesting armies on the tabletop. However, I've also had some that really didn't take off, like the Yayoi Japanese and the Inca. Both remain heavily in the red and I fear always will be.

So I thought I'd take the pulse a bit before making another "ancients" range. Any ideas as to what you'd like to see that's not available at present? I sometimes get requests for Northern and Southern Dynasties Chinese--if so which? I think they were rather different in appearance?

Ah, that explains why the Incas never got their Canari allies, I guess. It's tough playing second banana to the Aztecs in the public's (and list writer's) estimation.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain there are still a number of biblical armies that are tough to find figures for... I can't vouch for the demand for this period, though. It doesn't help that most of the armies are not that competitive.

Another area to look is Medieval Eastern Europe... most manufacturers' "generic" knights of this period are essentially English/French in appearance, so there might be some room for proper figures here, and the armies perform a bit better in open competition as well.

khurasan_miniatures wrote:I've been very pleased by the reception of the Three Kingdoms Koreans and the Kofun Japanese, both of which sell extremely well. However, I've also had some that really didn't take off, like the Yayoi Japanese and the Inca. Both remain heavily in the red and I fear always will be.

So I thought I'd take the pulse a bit before making another "ancients" range. I sometimes get requests for Northern and Southern Dynasties Chinese--if so which?

I think part of the ebb and flow of ancients armies are rules that link to new lists.
So for example, in FOG Yayoi and Inca are likely against the tide for people picking armies on performance of unique-ness. Neither are really appealing in FOG AM or R terms other than to some one who is an enthusiast in that period.

Flip to Kofun may not be a "tiger" of an army but it offer unique attributes. Three Kingdom is similar. So when people looked to expanding their collection to armies of the Asia world, FOG would drive these two. But say Chola are a non-starter in FOG, because the list writer muffed it badly setting out to make it a worthless army. But in DBM Chola had appeal.

So I think finding the groove is important on profitable return.

Jhykronos wrote: Ah, that explains why the Incas never got their Canari allies, I guess. It's tough playing second banana to the Aztecs in the public's (and list writer's) estimation.

No, it's because the spears were not casting in correctly. Half of them were bent and as soon as you tried to straighten them, they broke off. So i had to send them back to the caster to get the moulds redone. That was done, and the spears cast in ok now, and they are on the release schedule, but not exactly at the front of the line.

I've decided to go with Song Chinese, as that was the most frequent recommendation on the DBMMlist, where I got the most feedback.

khurasan_miniatures wrote:No, it's because the spears were not casting in correctly. Half of them were bent and as soon as you tried to straighten them, they broke off. So i had to send them back to the caster to get the moulds redone..

I bought some of your cuirassiers and two broke when cutting the bar off between the legs. I think you need to change your metal alloy. I have some Essex pikes that I have had for years and they have bent double and been straightened dozens of times and only one breakage.

titanu wrote:

khurasan_miniatures wrote:No, it's because the spears were not casting in correctly. Half of them were bent and as soon as you tried to straighten them, they broke off. So i had to send them back to the caster to get the moulds redone..

I bought some of your cuirassiers and two broke when cutting the bar off between the legs. I think you need to change your metal alloy. I have some Essex pikes that I have had for years and they have bent double and been straightened dozens of times and only one breakage.

Sounds like they have lead content, which some of my models do too. Others, like the Imperialist cuirassiers, are cast in pewter, because the complexity of their poses did not permit casting in white metal (which does not flow as easily as pewter).

I'm sorry your models broke but I've not heard that complaint before.

khurasan_miniatures wrote: I've decided to go with Song Chinese, as that was the most frequent recommendation on the DBMMlist, where I got the most feedback.

Hmmm, nice - what sources of inspiration will you be using for your figures ? I already have a 'Song' army, but this has been cobbled together from various Ming/Yuan ranges which is probably good enough, but I'd be interested to see the outcome of your efforts and would part with cash if it was a bit more historically accurate than what I've got.

That said, has anyone used Song much, and how have they fared? I've always wanted to try it, but crossbows, meh.

Mostly Chinese sources -- there are some books on ancient armour, and a few (not nearly enough, unfortunately) period images, including a nice one of a crossbowman. To fill in the gaps I will probably refer to the recent TV drama made in China, The Patriot Yue Fei, which seems to have been pretty carefully researched. For instance the spear/polearm guys will to some extent be based on this guy:



Except with the long shield, a plainer helmet, and no cape. And their clothing will be based instead on the commoners in this period image (which the model more or less has anyway):

Ok, well my wallet is now twitching and I'm avoiding eye contact with the missus....

Intothevalley wrote:Ok, well my wallet is now twitching and I'm avoiding eye contact with the missus....

meh, just buy the equvalent in jewelery or flowers first.

I'd suggest your market is:

- armies that do well in rule sets. These will sell in volume because competition players will buy them and club players will buy them. The problem at present is there are quite a few rule sets. But I would suggest check DBMM, FOG and Art de la Guerre. So, for example in FOGAM, the later Kofun Nara happen to be very points-effective (armoured medium foot archers with light spear - very handy) whereas Yayoi Japanese seem weak. The reason is that the points system in the rules underprices armour and foot light spears.

- people that want something different because it's pretty or unusual or fills a gap (e.g. I have some Chinantec spears to support the artillery in my mid c16th New Spain army). The trouble here is that while every army may have it's fans, it's probably not enough to generate a return.

Not sure whether the Song fall into the second category or not; I haven't seen them used in FOG certainly. I have used the Ming though, and I know Ming has also been used a bit in FOG Renaissance; so that could be a better bet. Of course could be different for other rule sets.

Thanks for that Graham -- I make Qing (Manchu) Chinese, which I undertand can be quite a dangerous foe of the pike and shot armies in FOGR. Not sure I'm so keen on the Ming TBH. I'm sure it's an effective army, it just doesn't interest me that much for some reason.

essex make a very good range of northern dynasties

what about the assyrian ?

in my point view if i think "in already done range but could be better" :
ottoman
christian nubian
khmer and burmese
vietnamese
picts


bonne continuation
your production is very good

Byzantines ?