Slitherine

Can you post your strategies for this campaign? I'm stuck at the second mission and I have no ideas how to beat this mission. First I started playing this campaign on hard but I soon changed to challenging but still I can't beat the second mission.

The first mission is hard but beatable. But I take loses (especially at the bridge) because you just need to race on. This loses kill me in the second mission. There is not enough req to repair and there seems to be a bug (or intentional?) that disbanding units don't give you money anymore. The second mission is hard because I can't take the hex fast enough so that the vehicle counter attack starts too late to kill all of them. And there are just too much and too good vehicles that i can't take all out without repair. How did you do it?

I'm also playing on challenging and do enjoy the increased difficulty a lot. I made it to the 4. mission so far.

All that is different from the original campaign is that you have les options to outrange the enemy so some losses are unavoidable. That makes it even more important to use cover correctly and use the right unit for the right job.
The second thing is, that the enemy units reinforce now. There are just 2 ways to counter that: 1 - focus fire and kill units in one turn if you can. 2 - place units near enemy units that are hurt so they cannot reinforce to full strength
I can only tell you to get as many dreadnoughts as you can. There are no better units for the first 4 missions. They take little to no casualties, can break defenses and stay in melee so the orks cannot reinforce. In defensive missions they make a perfect frontline.
There still is this thing about upgrading your units … if you upgrade a squad with casualties to a different unit and then back you will have a fully reinforced unit with no exp loss. You may consider that abuse but I think if of it as a nice reward for not losing a unit. To best exploit that, you should be sure to spend all your money in every deployment. I will have to replay the game without this abuse later but it’s just more fun this way and still better then constant reloading after every unlucky engagement.

You better make sure you stock up on dreadnoghts in the first mission, 4-5, they are your shield and the units that break the enemy lines. If one get damaged, rotate it back in the line and send another, those things are too damn expensive to loose one. Convert all tanks to Vindicators, they lack range of predators but they can acctually kill something. And like Fufuhunt3r said: with the orcs be able to unlimitly restock thier units you need to Kill right away, not grind them down like you did in the main campain.

Get rid of melee and assault units in the city blocks the orcs are far numerous to send in troops they can hurt. Stick to the dreads and when ever something is weak call in the Vindicators to quickly finish it off. Other than that you will allways have to put units next to the orc to prevent it from just heal back to full and if its not a dread or a landraider other orcs will swarm/focus weaker units.

And get some snipers/scouts to weaken the looters. The Deffgun makes big holes even in the thickest armor so you don't want your dreads to charge them on full strength.

On mission specific: send a smaller force est to clear the bigger island in the north with the ig and the devestators on it, when thats done you'll get a Basalisk as reward. Together with 2support units thats just what you need in the citys center when the convoi rolls in. The lower road can be covert by a single dread, in the cityblocks the orcs cant get past him and he is to resilent for thier guns to be taken down quickly, so he can grind them to pulp. If you need more firepower send the fliers - landspeeder and vendetta - they finish off trucks fast but allways at high risk.

the Upper road leads thru a dense city area that ends on the mainstreet, place a dreadnoght at that point and vidicators behind it, use the fortifications in the center for the devestators and everything that comes from above should die when it steps out on the last building-tile - because of that tile the orcs behind it can not fire on the mainstreet so you fight one of them with everything you got.

Leaves the road from the west, its open ground but the units are not as strong as those from the north so you just overpower them with the rest of your force, turn north hunt down the corcs waiting to enter the city and box in all units in the cityblocks that now being attacked form both sides with nowhere to go.
Oh and that street looks like a perfect place for a infantry ambrush on the orc mechs - don't try it, while both sides are blocked by city-road-tiles the street itself is not, so every marine that sticks its head in there ends as orcfood, because every mech on the street will open up on them.


All in all its save to say that being infantry in vulkans wrath is no fun. Everything that is not at least a terminator or better will be orc main target because everything else is too heavily armord and hurts to mutch to hit - so when the orcs spot something that fits that description they come running to for miles to kill it. Keep weaker units out of sight and kill every orc scout like unit: Warboss, buggys, bikes.

Funny to see, you played that second mission exactly like me battlebrother

There is only one thing to add. If there is a melee only unit on the nothern city tile you may as well use a flyer as roadblock instead of a dreadnought. I did so even with the Titan and it worked out great (only 2 machines from the typoon lost)

To my regret, after one mission, there is no difference between the difficulty hard and challenging.
You do not get points not only for an upgrade, but even on a replacement.
I would love to hear from developers - how the mechanics of difficulty levels....

caca wrote:To my regret, after one mission, there is no difference between the difficulty hard and challenging.
You do not get points not only for an upgrade, but even on a replacement.
I would love to hear from developers - how the mechanics of difficulty levels....

Hard mode grants the AI units 20% additional strength points. For example gretchin become 60 base strength units instead of 50.

So I got to mission 5 abusing the upgrade reinforcement thing and still have no losses. However I was foolish enough to play so far with only 3 dreadnoughts and now I have too few frontline units to win this mission and there is still no new money to get some. I see myself forced to start all new. Now with this "exciting" core:

We are aware of a few bugs that are making the highest difficulty levels of the game much harder than they are intended to be. These issues mostly revolving around Point allotment and harder difficulties are providing fewer points than intended. We are working on this situation, but in the mean time beware that difficulties higher than normal are probably over-tuned as a result!

With that in mind, as with any content that proves too challenging at first, there is no shame in lowering the difficulty setting to get a hang of the game and learn it's mechanics.

A few bugs aside, here are hopefully some tips to also bring victory to your Space Marines in their new campaign!

• Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders may seem to be the best units, and in many ways they are, but they are also extremely expensive. Be sure to bring ample Space Marine infantry to bolster your roster.
• Infantry, even Space Marines, require cover to operate effectively, even when on the offensive.
• Support units are very effective at keeping the new, extra savage, Ork AI at bay. Heavy Bolter and Meltagun Support infantry are great at holding defensive positions, while mobile units such as Razorbacks and Whirlwinds are excellent for providing supporting fire while your troops advance in offensive actions.
• A slower advance is a safer advance. Buying transports for all of your infantry can get prohibitally expensive very quickly
• Be economical! When spending Points, remember to keep a healthy reserve at the start of every scenario for issuing replacements and also for replacing units destroyed in action. Also, don't just buy only the most expensive units. Utilize your entire unit limit on every scenario.
• Most weapons can fire across multiple hexes, but most weapons also lose accuracy when firing from longer distances.
• If a weapon has a range indicator such as 2-3, it means the weapon only fire at those ranges and cannot fire at range 1.
• Pay attention to weapon graphics, they are strong indicator of exactly which weapons are actually firing.
• Infantry units armed with assault weapons ignore terrain cover when using those assault weapons.
• Combined arms tactics are very powerful, be sure to bring a few of each type of unit and not too many of the same.
• As a unit's morale falls, turning their strength plate from white to red, they suffer from combat penalties such as reduced accuracy and reduced initiative.
• Unit hit points only recover by one per rest action. A Titan with 10/15 hit points takes 5 full turns to refit back to full strength.
• Pick the right weapon for the right job! A high strength weapon might seem to be strong against infantry, but a weapon with a much higher rate of fire will get the job done much more efficiently.
• Pay attention to the cover ratings that different terrains give.
• Non-infantry units gained a reduced amount of cover bonus from terrain.
• Infantry are often required to take some Victory Hexes, many vehicles are often too large to enter these hexes.
• Victory and objectives hexes can be identified by their golden outline.
• CORE units have a gold border plate, AUXILIARY units have a grey border plate, and mission critical special units have a unique border plate.
• Unit's with the leadership trait are very important for keeping up the morale of nearby units without the need for constant rest actions.
• Always bring dedicated scouting units to screen your main advance, preventing enemy counterattacks from reaching your expensive combat and artillery units is very important.

Kerensky wrote:We are working on this situation, but in the mean time beware that difficulties higher than normal are probably over-tuned as a result!

I'll wait.
Good post.

Sry Kerensky there is one point i have to object.
My 269h of WH40k Armageddon taught me so far to NEVER plan on losing units. Losing a full trooper or a viehicle equals losing xp what in turn equals loss of firepower. So holding funds back to reinforce or replaceing a full unit is like planning on losing XP. If there really is no more new unit slot or usefull upgrade i save spare points in form of adv. razorbacks for scouts. Not that the scouts need more mobility but i can carry over the points to a scenario i need them more than i do now.

Xp is by far too importened to lose, on last mission, Vulkans Wrath i had my Dreads maxed out: they eat Skullhammers for breakfast, kick battleweagons arond like toycars and Gargants check under their beds befor going to sleep, might be a dreadnought hinding under there. Same goes for Infantry: Terminators with Assaultcannons have a impressive overall of 90 attacks and hurt when they stike no matter what, but with full xp and high moral the things they do to this massive gretchen hords, man thats not even funny anymore (who i'm kidding, its hilarious )

Plus, The codex astartes stats, that wasting warriors lifes is a sin to the emperor of mankind, after all this is not the Imperial Guard. I'm sure you did not intent to be involved in a heracy did ya? *inquisitional stare*

No of course not.

There's no denying the Space Marine are extremely high quality compared to the Ork high quantity, but for good gameplay we still need to strike some balance. It is in that spirit of balance and fair play that we especially face that. Particularly in a multiplayer setting of Space Marines vs Orks!

Its not brutally. Playing the Steel Legion campaign on hard difficulty is brutal or playing the vanilla scenrios on very hard difficulty is brutal. But it is manageable and with some skill its quite fun. I played it often on this level.

But this campaign is NOT like it! The first few scenarios are difficult but manageable but the fun ends with the vile slaver scenario!

I doubt that any of the devs has the skill to make it through the vile slaver scenario. (I think its the 8th in line) After fourth try and repeating cumbersome close combat through a whole horde of orc titans with inadequate armor penetration units I still dont know where these vile slaver critters are hiding on this big map. Unplayable scenarios like this with unfair enemies and vague victory conditions which use up my valuable spare time and lead to nothing sucks the fun for me out. Vile tomato for the dev who thought he is extra clever to edit such an exercise for masochists.

This reminds me not to buy DLC without reading any reviews. In future I think I will skip campaigns like this.

few bugs that are making the highest difficulty levels of the game much harder than they are intended to be. These issues mostly revolving around Point allotment

So I tried on normal and yeah ... you get 1000 extra points already after mission 1. On Challenging, I got not a single point through all missions up until 5. That's quite a gamebreaking bug then

I'll just stroll through normal now and hope for fixes soon. That should be a walk in the park now XD

Kerensky wrote:We are aware of a few bugs that are making the highest difficulty levels of the game much harder than they are intended to be. These issues mostly revolving around Point allotment and harder difficulties are providing fewer points than intended. We are working on this situation, but in the mean time beware that difficulties higher than normal are probably over-tuned as a result!

Very much over-tuned
At Tartarus defence , which is where i will stop since this would probably be a massacre, due to insufficient troops.
Here is a comparison of what i have vs playing at normal Level.

3 unfilled Slots vs 2 Dreads + LR
4 Snipers vs 2 Command + 2 Term w.Assault cannon
3 Razorbacks vs 3 whirlwinds
1 Tactical squad vs Term w.Assault cannon
1 Vindicator vs LR

Remainder is the same , 1 Command, 3 Devestator,4 Dread,2 assault bike.
I have not lost any Units, just had to downgrade for presitige to buy/upgrade other Units.

I have to say, that is a really high quality force eating up your points though. Only a single tactical squad? Tactical squads are generally the most numerous unit to bring to battle with their low cost and high damage output they are extremely efficient units. Keeping them from taking excessive damage and casualties takes some practice for sure, but it mostly boils down to making sure they are always in some form of cover, be it dead trees, a crater, or even better, a trench or building hex.

Kerensky wrote:I have to say, that is a really high quality force eating up your points though. Only a single tactical squad? Tactical squads are generally the most numerous unit to bring to battle with their low cost and high damage output they are extremely efficient units.

High Quality is what i had at normal, at challenging 3 empty Slots 4 snipers (cheapest infantry unit) 3 Razorbacks (cheapest tank ) is not high Quality

At challenging i only had 1 because i had to downgrade to afford important Upgrades, like getting a 3rd Devestator.

I disagree about the worth of tactical squads, they are not high damage or efficient (especially due to taking damage). Also often cover in a good Location is sparse and putting a command squad or devestator in that Position is better
Snipers are efficient Units, they do slightly more damage in General than a tactical squad at range 2 (less shots, but more actual hits due to better accuracy), but usually engage at 3 or 4 and avoid taking damage

As long as every unit takes up one space in "population" people will go for the highest quality they can get for the money they have. A terminator with assault cannon is just always better than a tactical. Reinforcement costs are no valid argument as a high quality unit usually takes fewer losses.

I would love to run a more fluffy army with mostly tacticals. If one could get 2 tacticals for 1 terminator there would be an actual choice for the player to do the one or the other. The point costs are about equal but if the "population" costs of the tacticals are double why would anybody get the "expensive" tacticals?

My army in mission 4 looks like this: 7 deadnoughts, 3 landraiders, 4 terminators, 2 devastators, 2 landspeeders and a commandsquard with still 2000+ points in the bank. There is no point to get units of a lower quality

In multiplayer the situation is different, as one has way less money and loosing entire units doesn't hurt as much.

I see what you are saying, but if you aren't filling your entire roster, you are missing out on a considerable amount of firepower. Those tactical units have some pretty extraordinary firepower being a 20 strength unit with a 2 rate of fire. The vast majority of the Ork enemy units are generally infantry or light vehicles too, and sending dreadnoughts to clear Gretchin is really inefficient given the 1 attack per turn rule.

I would by no means label Space Marine Tactical units as inferior or low quality units. They have their role to play, but I will admit that they are much more challenging to use properly because of their tremendous requirement on staying in cover at almost all times to survive where as a dreadnought with its fantastic armor rating is just a walking tank. But you can get 3 tactical units for 1 dreadnought, and those 60 Space Marine infantry have a huge firepower advantage over the single unit of 5 dreadnoughts.

Lets assume a squad of 90 gretchen -> up to no good -> comes across your spearhead, a dread will not kill them but he'll break thier numbers, moral and the retalliation will not be lethal to terminators anymore -> in walks a squad of Terminators with assault cannons, 90 attacks warped up in bow. If those guys have a little xp and high moral, the gretchen can kiss their asses goodbye. Now how many tac-squads would i need to get the job done? Tested it - 4 of 4 times, i needed 4 tac squads to kill all the gretchen. If we look at the costs thats about right we could even hire more tacs for what we spend on the higher quality units. But wait, this is no gretchen hunt, there is a war going on and those gretchen are not alone, so i need 4 fields with good cover with at least one hex spare to the gretchens (we don't want our sparkling supersoldireboys to get hit and some get killed). In meleerange they will still take losses when in cover, sure only one or two at a time but thats points we would not have lost if the attacking unit was a rock with lags and an assaultcannon straped to its side. Sure the Terminators will need cover too but once they are in it, even meganobs are looking for an excuse not to have to assault them.

Spacemarines, be it tacs or assaults are not low qualitiy, but lack armor and don't bite back as hard as their bigger bretheren do and that makes them vulnerable, especialy to higher qualitiy orc infantry and dont' get me started on fighting orc mechs with marines ----> you need a seriouse deathwish to try something like that. Of cause, a megadread melee model can mess up a dreadnought pretty good, but if he encounters 60 marines in 3x tac-squads there will be only bloody bits and pieces left.

And with the xp lose on death and points lost to repair units its inefficent and uneconomical to field Space Marines over units with higher surviability. Maybe my jugdement on this matter is clouded by beating Vulkans Wrath on hard with the bug that prevents people form getting resources in place, where loses like SMs take them are simply unacceptable. We are still discussing Vulkans Wrath here right?

Kerensky, this is an old argument carried over from PzC, but are players still expected to go into the editor to know what the rate of fire is on a unit? If this is such an essential stat, it should be visible in the GUI so that we can make better informed buy decisions.