Slitherine

In short, I found the game refreshing. all the pieces come togeather in an elegant way. Units are few, but each serves its own purpose. The game does a great job at depicting the "Partisans win by default just by staying alive and active" tenant of COIN warfare. This is not something many games did before.

Suggestions:

-My major UI suggestion would be that the game needs a clear and visual representation of which units completed their moves. A simple small icon going grey or more pale (like in Pacific General or Panzer Corps) would entirely sufice and is badly needed.

- Option to turn on hex grid overlay. This would help me with placing bases in correct ranges from strategic location, right now this is hard to cacluclate at times.

- As a followup to the point above - have an option to turn on fog of war overlay, sometimes I want to be certain if my view range reaches that copse of tees or is it one hex beyond.

- Villages feel generic. I think making a random name list for these would enchance immersion as well as allow players to quicker get their heads around a new random map. Shouldn't be too difficult, just look at old Vietnam staff maps that have been made public. Tons of small hamlets noted on said maps. I could compile such a list myself.

- Give the player the ability to leave nametags on hexes (IE: "Seen a RPG here"). Battle Acadmy 2 has that and imho its a very nice feature that would really be usefull in this game.

- Agent Orange. Have it be a decision like the emergency supply, that would target a hex and remove jungle. Should cost quite a bit and lower opinion in the nearest village to boot. This should be a decision used rarely (under normal circumstances it should be much cheper to just move an engineer). Still, agent orange could help with some exremes of the random maps - I found a jungle map with a village near the corner that was 10 hexes away from the nearest clear hex. I would be willing to pay 2000 Political support for such an "Agent Orange" decision on said map.

- NVA mortar units. A unit with a range of 3, these should move twoards a US base and fire at it, themselves remaining hidden until spotted per normal rules. These should not be too deadly, but should force the player to search from them, otherwise risking turn after turn of potential losses at bases.

- Weather. Have a chance for a tropical storm turn, this would limit visibility of all units to 1 and lower the range of helicopters to 75% or so.

- More ways to interact with villages, including aid and publci relations. I think it would be interesting if the dynamic of denying supplies to partisans (burnign chaches and evan crops) vs losing H&M support could be depiected.

- I'd also like an ability to turn one or two into strategic villages, with the corresponing political points cost.

- Could use more random events, good and bad. These should be an option and allow the player to play with or without these.

- What I did not like - NVA armored units launching an ambush against my firebase. That just felt weird and ahistorical - only times NVA tanks attacked any US base by surprise was during Tet against a small outpost west of Khe San. I do not think armored units should be able to ambush in the game.

- Extend the map several rows of hexes in the west and label these as Cambodia or Laos, with a clearly marked border. VC and NVA can move in and out, unlike US. Bases do not spawn there, nva and VC remianing beyond the border do not influence local villages etc. Basically this could allow the communists to regrounp and move around their units outside of direct US threat. Communist units outside the border should only be possible to be attacked by airstrikes.

- I understand why this is so (probably lots of AI scripting for the US side), but I think the ability to play as NVA/VC should come in a future patch. The game seems like a good candidate for multiplayer too.

Other stuff:
Graphics: are ok-ish, but nothing to brag about. On the plus side - the map is in natural and soft tones, doesn't prove tiring for the eyes (something which was a problem for me for example with Battle Academy 1).

Sounds:OK-ish, although I was expecting some iconic period US music though. I was also expecting real AK-47 and M-16 sounds, which doesn't seem to be the case.
Unit order verbal confirmations can start to be annoying once the amount of units increases ("Plebs are needed" syndrome).


All in all better than expected and will reccomend the game to friends. I was a bit hesitant at first thinking the game will be simplistic, but there relaly is more here than meets the eye.

some great points and topics for debate raised, im sure the developer will reply and add more, as i'm limited to what i can say, did the beta, and loved it, plays and re plays very well, glad you liked it and great feedback btw

Nice post Sabratha... Refreshing is a very good word. I kept thinking 'unique'.

If one is not careful it can become a logistics nightmare. base placement is very important so choppers can ferry supplies and wounded back and forth.

Generating some names for villages and the ability to 'name units' would help with immersion. ( I understand naming units is on the wish list).

I love random maps so this is a great game design for me. It brings to mind Monty Python "and now for something completely different"

Thanks for the game, I'm finding it very enjoyable!

New sugestion:

- Aside from normal VC bases, let the AI have up to 1 underground tunnel network on the map. This should count as a smal base per gameplay purposes, taking only 100 political points a turn max and be a bit easier to destroy by infantry than the main base. The catch>? It can be targeted only by infantry. Arty, planes, tanks or mech cannot attack it.

jack54 wrote:If one is not careful it can become a logistics nightmare. base placement is very important so choppers can ferry supplies and wounded back and forth.

Well, I basicaly came up with 2 alternative solutions:

1) Place your firebase square in the middle of the map, so your Cobra can flu up to the western aproac in 1 turn and cover most of the map. Arty in such a position can alwo work wonders. Cons: Medevac from the firebase to the main base ill take 2 turns each way.

2) Place the firebase within 1 helicopter jump from the main base. Pros: easy medevac, 1 turn arty resupply etc. Cons: Well, it will likely be too far from the western ede or some of the villages to strike the foe in 1 turn.


Now my "normal" level game, I just placed one firebase and had no need for the small foward bases. Totally not the case in veteran, in veteran I place 1 or 2. A good notion is to place a forward base right in the midle of the path that you see NVA advance through. Place an infantry in permanat ambush mode in said base then watch the NVA try to attept some hopeless attempt at a Dien Bien Phu.

You raise many very good points here. There's definitely lots of stuff for us to digest. Thank you for your detailed feedback!

Chippit wrote:You raise many very good points here. There's definitely lots of stuff for us to digest. Thank you for your detailed feedback!

Glad I could contribute. Always willing to offer some poitns on a new game. Thanks for making it, it is fun so far. I'll play a few more veteran level games and tell you how it goes. also thanks to slitherine fo letting me know baout thisgame, wouldn't have found it if it weren't for news at slitherine.

yes could do with more pushing as profile isn't large atm

Posted review on Steam. Collected various tidbits of input me and an RL friend who played it with me on my PC.

I just got smacked around real good in my first veteran game. I was afraid it would be too easy; not so. Lots of fun so far! IMHO

Very Fun Game.

Still learning but it's off to a good start.

Oh, the Price is Right, good value for the money.

jack54 wrote:I just got smacked around real good in my first veteran game. I was afraid it would be too easy; not so. Lots of fun so far! IMHO

I got smacked around in my first game playing as regular lol. Lost three helos including my cobra near a NVA base. Wasn't a good day for the air cav.

Thanks for the post Sabratha, looks like you have hacked into my PC and seen (most) of my wish list.

Few points:

The idea of tags in hexes is spot on, I actually wanted the ability to make pen marking on the strategic map, like a red marker pen ability to like circle an area on future op or area to focus on etc

Th NVA armor is more contentious than I thought, it is actually meant to represent an NVA offensive, maybe your mortar team would be a better solution methinks .....

Naming units and villages was an oversight and must be a fix, will add to the immersion with little effort.

Bigger maps, weather and a deeper Intel converations , plus random events are on top of the said list...

The mortar team is a fantastic idea. In fact I believe the reason the Australians got into the battle of Long Tan was because they were hunting a VC mortar unit. A fantastic documentary as well. Can be viewed on youtube and is really one of the best films ive seen about real life events in Vietnam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gUSq7pxux4

Vietnam65 wrote:Thanks for the post Sabratha, looks like you have hacked into my PC and seen (most) of my wish list.

Few points:

The idea of tags in hexes is spot on, I actually wanted the ability to make pen marking on the strategic map, like a red marker pen ability to like circle an area on future op or area to focus on etc

Th NVA armor is more contentious than I thought, it is actually meant to represent an NVA offensive, maybe your mortar team would be a better solution methinks .....

Naming units and villages was an oversight and must be a fix, will add to the immersion with little effort.

Bigger maps, weather and a deeper Intel converations , plus random events are on top of the said list...

as you have to start somewhere in a series, i think for the first one, if it does make it into a series if enough like it and buy it that is, the adding wishlist will grow and expand the game, i spent more on my dinner which was a subway sandwich tbh than on this, and i enjoyed this a whole lot more

Did it have extra pepperoni ?

no, as i'm not much of a meat eater, will eat it but not really that much tbh, was a cheese salad with extra onions on one of there honey bread things

Mortar teams would be a perfect addition to this game. It should allow an indirect fire capability from any "open" hex. I would restrict mortar fire from wooded tiles but allow it in any other unblocked tile. A good alternative to only having Arty, and it's mobile as well.

Really like the mortar team suggestion

Two more thougts/suggestions on units:
1) Perhaps it would be best to separate the Green Beret into two different unit types:
- An LRRP patrol. Has 3 detect range, but very poor combat ability and can't train local forces.
- A Green Beret proper. Has decent combat ability (same as infantry or maybe an even a bonus to ambushes) and can get intel from villages, can train troops but has 1 detect range.
I'm mentioning this, as green beret seems to be a bit too usefull in the game, at the same time it now has low combat ability which is not something we would expect from special forces.

2) ARVN seem too versatile. I think the unit could be split into two types:
- CIDG. Local militias trained by Geen Berets. Ok at defending, but have 1 detect range, move 1 hex per turn, cannot get intel from villages and are weaker at attacking than ARVN regulars. They get trained faster tho.
- ARVN rangers/regulars. Same stats as curent ARVN, maybe making them have a detect range of 2 and having them a bit more expensive than US infantry. Bought with political points, not trained by berets.

Two more terrain suggestions:
1) Hilltops. 1 extra range for mortars plaed on these, a defence bonus for units on hilltops defending against a land unit attack. I am thinking of RL events like the Chu Pong massif etc.
2) Plantations. Limiting movement and adding same defence stats as jungle. Removing them with an engineer should cost quite some political points though. Historically rubber plantations were some of the most fought-over areas in COIN operations in south vietnam.

Vietnam65 wrote:Thanks for the post Sabratha, looks like you have hacked into my PC and seen (most) of my wish list.

Few points:

The idea of tags in hexes is spot on, I actually wanted the ability to make pen marking on the strategic map, like a red marker pen ability to like circle an area on future op or area to focus on etc

Th NVA armor is more contentious than I thought, it is actually meant to represent an NVA offensive, maybe your mortar team would be a better solution methinks .....

Naming units and villages was an oversight and must be a fix, will add to the immersion with little effort.

Bigger maps, weather and a deeper Intel converations , plus random events are on top of the said list...

I'd like to think that great minds think alike, but its possibly just the fact that I have professional experience with PC game testing and design.

I'd like your idea for a red marker visuals. I originally thought it would be a pin like in Battle Academy, but the marker idea is better and more visually appealing.
Naming villages and units I think is really something that would add flavour to the game. Perhaps larger terrain features like rivers could get names too if possible.

don't know how bigger will be the bigger maps, but if the increase is substantial, then perhaps adding a provincial capital that has to be defended - each turn it is attacked (regardless of outcome) a small political points cost of 250 should be deducted. It also should costs a lot of political points and H&M if communist actually overrun it. Happened in a few places during Tet and the political fallout was massive, even if actual combat results were far from good for the VC in the end.

I really am starting to like the Provincial Capital thing , a LOT...

There is scope for more units and more specialization , like LRRP etc , but I am sure with your game design experience, balancing is everything, just getting this lot to work together was a mission, now we can get over the hump of initial feedback, take a deep breath and move forward ...

Terrain elevation has always been on our list, very near the top.

Terrain variation is probably just on top of terrain elevation Think, Vietnam'66 Mekong Delta....