Slitherine

Hi all,

I have two rules queries and an army list query that came up from last nights game. Easy one first. Late republican roman list you have to have at least 12 bases of legionaries. Then it says you can “upgrade” some to elite legionaries. Can you take 12 elite legions and no standard superior ones, or do you have to take the elite ones IN ADDITION to the 12 standard superior ones?

I assumed the former but my opponent (who was the roman) was not so sure.

Now the tricky one, my opponent and I disagreed totally on this one last night. I gave it to him for the sake of keeping the game going but believe he is wrong J

Vvv
Vvv
Vvv
Vvv
Vvv
BBBBBB
BBBBBB

The “V”’s are roman velites in line facing to the left. They are virtually touching the carthie infantry to their flank.
The “B”’s are 6 bases of Bruttian superior light spearmen deployed in column facing to the right.

My belief is that for the Roman velites to hit the romans in the flank and it count as a legitimate flank charge they would pretty much have to do a 90 degree turn and then charge the following turn.

My opponent believed that he could angle the felite line say 5 degrees towards the Bruttians and charge. I accept he could indeed do that but he then believes that because his men are behind the first base (even though he for example hits the 3rd base which he is not behind) then he has got a legitimate flank charge on me.

This seemed totally wrong to me, but as I said I let him have it for speed of play.

OK last one is actually part of the same combat as above. The velite and Bruttians were actually in a village which meant the Bruttians were disordered. Just to the right of the bruttians were a legionary unit facing the bruttians. (I had turned the Bruttians 90 degrees the previous turn to flank charge him but he had just turned his legion by 90 degrees to thwart me). My opponent claimed that my Bruttians were “at the edge” of the village, as such my Bruttians were all disordered but his legions when he charged me were not as they did not enter the village. Again to me this seems a very fine nit picking, I think the Legions should have been severly disordered by charging me in the village.

Easy question first: yes.

Hard question:
The charge is OK as long as it hits the flank of yout BG and one or more bases of the charging BG are behind the front rank of your formation so that bit you played partrly correctly and partly wrong. I suspect that the bit you missed was that the chargers have to move at least 1 MU after a wheel to count as a flank charge (3rd bullet P56). It may get slightly odd results at times but the flank charge rule is fairly simple and IMO clear. There were discussions about making the flank charge rule more complex but to be honest flank charges are pretty hard in FoG, certainly compared to DBx where flank charges can appear seemingly from nowhere.

Were the Brutians light foot javelinemen or medium foot? If they were javelinemen then they could just evade, if they were medium foot then the light foot charging you in the flank shouldn't be an issue and is only possible if you are not in good going. Also as the LF charge MF you you aren't disrupted, fight with twice as many dice and cah if you want turn to face. Unless the legionaries charged you at the same time there is a good chance that the light foot would be routed before the legions get to charge.

As to the dissorder thing it really depends on where your troops are and the best way to manage this is by declaring where they are when you move them and in a situation where there is a doubt you probably just need to roll a dice. In FoG only the terrain your troops are in matters so if you were just inside the village then the Romans would be severly dissordered, if you were right on the edge (highly unlikely) or just outside (more likely) then you are dissorderd and the Romans are not.

Thanks Hammy,

So you do not have to take 12 standard legionaries if you take at least 12 upgraded or downgraded legions instead. Fine.

So my opponent was right about the flank charge BUT the important bit we both missed was the one inch move for it to count as a flank charge. Don't know why bu tI have completely missed that one

I think he was being a bit pedantic insisting my MF Bruttians were exactly on the edge of the village. In future I will make it clear that I am 1mm inside the boundary of the village, then if any HF want to charge me they are severly disordered.

miffedofreading wrote:Thanks Hammy,

So you do not have to take 12 standard legionaries if you take at least 12 upgraded or downgraded legions instead. Fine.

So my opponent was right about the flank charge BUT the important bit we both missed was the one inch move for it to count as a flank charge. Don't know why bu tI have completely missed that one

I think he was being a bit pedantic insisting my MF Bruttians were exactly on the edge of the village. In future I will make it clear that I am 1mm inside the boundary of the village, then if any HF want to charge me they are severly disordered.

Was the base of Brutians that the LF charged in the village? If not it couldn't be charged by LF.

Were the two charges simultaneous?

Sounds like

a) the LF couldn't charge as they are not allowed to charge MF even inthe flank
b) had couldn't do a flank charge anyway due tothe 1MU

Thus sorted. Missing anything else?

Si

The Bruttian MF and ROman Velites were entirely in the village.

Velites can charge MF in poor terrain can't they?

The one inch rule is VERY important. I was trying to charge his legion in the flank, and was about 2mm from his flank so he needn't have bothered to turn, I was not allowed to charge and count it as a flank charge anyway.

Andy

Yes they can if in terrain. Didn't notice the village.

1MU rule is indeed v important

Si

miffedofreading wrote:The Bruttian MF and ROman Velites were entirely in the village.

Velites can charge MF in poor terrain can't they?

The one inch rule is VERY important. I was trying to charge his legion in the flank, and was about 2mm from his flank so he needn't have bothered to turn, I was not allowed to charge and count it as a flank charge anyway.

Velites can indeed charge MF in non good terrain, they will still lose 1 dice in 2 as LF fighting non fragmented non LF and will not disrupt their target on impact though.

You need to read the 1MU rule again I suspect. If you could have charged the legionaries in the flank without wheeling you would have been fine at 2mm, the 1 MU minimum only applies to charges with a wheel and must be after the wheel.

Thanks Hammy, at work at present, will reread that page tonight. Having the 1 inch requirement only after a wheel seems like a very good idea. Though quite easy for people to miss