Slitherine

Ave,

Possibly, one of the most under-rated of the numerous troop types available for recruitment is the skirmisher.
We currently have two types, the eponymous skirmisher and the velite. Both are armed with javelins as their
principal missile weapon, both have swords as hand-to-hand weapons, the velite has a light shield but not the skirmisher. Skirmishers and velites are two of only four units that can be trained to use the promotion skill of
Anti-Elephant Specialist, the other two being Militia and Auxilia.

Shirmishers have six javelins, Velites have eight: through equipment you can buy four extra javelins for each for a one off payment of 15 denari! If you enhance their skills through promotions, ie. marksman, weakspot targeting, expert throwers and skirmish, your skirmishers/velites become quite deadly and not to be taken "lightly"!

Some audacious and creative ideas on their use have been posted by other members:

sum1wun wrote:
"Even with anti-elephant, dont attack the elephants directly with the militia. Hit them in a flank after letting them slam into skimishers. Then, disengage the skirmishers and fire from afar."

honvedseg wrote:
"The limited effectiveness of skirmishers is misleading. If you use ranged weapons to soften up an opposing unit before your heavy hitters grind them to iron filings and hamburger, the opposing unit will hit its morale points sooner and inflict less casualties on your units in return. One such unit firing and fleeing, or screened by your heavy troops, can be very handy against a tough enemy unit, too many and you have a useless army after the ammunition is gone."

sum1wun wrote again:
"One useful trick with skirmishers is to send them out with a baby sitting unit of heavy cavalry behind. The skirmishers will fire at the enemy, and when they charge into combat, hit disengage immeadeaitly. If all goes well you should take out at least a few. While the enemy is chasing, slam the cavalry into them before they can get turned about, then, before they organize, disengage AGAIN. This one-two punch is excellent if your enemy is relying on shock units (elite units in the frontlines) to carry the day, and if done right, can literally cripple their army. Your opponent will likely want to use rally at this point to save his butt, and this will make him expend an extremely vital order. If he doesnt use rally or turn around, more fool him, because those troops will be wiped out. If you use only one or the other unit type to pull this off, the hit will not be quite enough to hamstring the unit."

Three first rate examples of the potential effectiveness of the skirmishers/velites. Thank you guys!

If you have had any interesting experiences with skirmishers/velites or any further ideas on their uses that you would like to share with the other members please feel free to post your thoughts.

One final thought: I note that we, as Romans, are fighting against bow-armed skirmishers. Why don't we have any?
Surely, once we've beaten them and conquered their country, can't we recruit them as auxiliaries? One further final thought, having chosen the skill skirmish through promotions, wouldn't you expect your troops to "skirmish" ie: evade contact if possible? Isn't that what skirmish means?

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

PS. For comparisons between skirmishers and velites see "Skirmishers or Velites?" rewritten today.

I definately under use my skirmishers! In the Celtic campaigns I only used the original unit and rarely gave them a significant role in any battle. In the Roman campaign I did have three units of velites, but tended to use them in a backup role behind the heavy infantry (HI) front line. I always placed the velites (with extra javelins) behind the HI and opposite the strongest enemy units. As the front line HI came into contact with the enemy the velites poured javelins down on the enemy rear which was not engaged with my HI. This tactic always worked well and reduced the morale of the enemy HI much faster. I have never used the skirmishers in their historical role ie. skirmishing in front of the main body of the army to disrupt the lines and drive off the light infantry. Historically after skirmishing they would be retired to a position behind the triarii or on the wings and I suppose that is probably how I use them most from the start of a battle.

venividivici wrote:I definately under use my skirmishers! In the Celtic campaigns I only used the original unit and rarely gave them a significant role in any battle. In the Roman campaign I did have three units of velites, but tended to use them in a backup role behind the heavy infantry (HI) front line. I always placed the velites (with extra javelins) behind the HI and opposite the strongest enemy units. As the front line HI came into contact with the enemy the velites poured javelins down on the enemy rear which was not engaged with my HI. This tactic always worked well and reduced the morale of the enemy HI much faster. I have never used the skirmishers in their historical role ie. skirmishing in front of the main body of the army to disrupt the lines and drive off the light infantry. Historically after skirmishing they would be retired to a position behind the triarii or on the wings and I suppose that is probably how I use them most from the start of a battle.

Ave venividivici,

Thank you for your input and support.

I too tended to under-use my skirmishers. However, since researching and writing this topic, I realised how much potential these little guys have. With additional javelins and improved missile skills, skirmishers are very capable of delivering prolonged, fearsome and quite lethal volleys that can impact heavily on most troop types. So much so, that another good knock from any combat troop type, is often enough to route them.

It would appear that in most battles we, the Romans, are outnumbered. It, therefore, falls to us to learn and maximise the capabilities of all troop types.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

spedius01 wrote: sum1wun wrote again:
"One useful trick with skirmishers is to send them out with a baby sitting unit of heavy cavalry behind. The skirmishers will fire at the enemy, and when they charge into combat, hit disengage immeadeaitly. If all goes well you should take out at least a few. While the enemy is chasing, slam the cavalry into them before they can get turned about, then, before they organize, disengage AGAIN. This one-two punch is excellent if your enemy is relying on shock units (elite units in the frontlines) to carry the day, and if done right, can literally cripple their army. Your opponent will likely want to use rally at this point to save his butt, and this will make him expend an extremely vital order. If he doesnt use rally or turn around, more fool him, because those troops will be wiped out. If you use only one or the other unit type to pull this off, the hit will not be quite enough to hamstring the unit."

I'll have to give this approach a try. I don't feel I under use my skirmishers. They're in the thick of every battle. I've upgraded them consistently, but I only have 2 divisions - supported by 2 archer divsions for range attack. I do need to add a couple velite divisions, but I'm saving up for praetorians right now - just a few more dinari.

This is a great post! Thanks spedius for compiling it. I would love to see this one "stickied" to stay near the top. I had perused the forum a long time before I found this post.

If using the skirmisher in their more historical role, in front of the heavies, does one allow them to make contact before disengaging them? Or does one move them back before they make hand-to-hand contact?

ITs worth mentioning that I really consider skirmishers to be disposable units- their javelins are there to do damage, but that mainly makes them act as better bait- they can waltz up, throw a few, and then run to lure an opponent. They aren't valuable for anything, though, and I wouldn't use them as a core unit, but just as a throw away- sort of like peasents.

But sum1won, you're my inspiration for using skirmishers as more than just throwaways. In fact, upon rereading it again, I've got to refine my tactics yet some more.

From sum1won in the "what to recruit first" thread:

One useful trick with skirmishers is to send them out with a baby sitting unit of heavy cavalry behind. The skirmishers will fire at the enemy, and when they charge into combat, hit disengage immeadeaitly. If all goes well you should take out at least a few. While the enemy is chasing, slam the cavalry into them before they can get turned about, then, before they organize, disengage AGAIN. This one-two punch is excellent if your enemy is relying on shock units (elite units in the frontlines) to carry the day, and if done right, can literally cripple their army. Your opponent will likely want to use rally at this point to save his butt, and this will make him expend an extremely vital order. If he doesnt use rally or turn around, more fool him, because those troops will be wiped out. If you use only one or the other unit type to pull this off, the hit will not be quite enough to hamstring the unit.