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Rear support clarification
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:54 am
by davem
In a recent game my opponent claimed rear support in this manner.
He had 2 BG's of 8 Pk in 4 ranks. Immediately behind these and split across both Pk BG's he had 1 BG of 4 MF Bw. He claimed each BG of 8 Pk could claim rear support from this single BG of 4 MF. My reading of P135 indicates that rear support can only be claimed when _each_ BG is supported by at least 1/2 it's own numbers. (Bullet 1)
Who's right? I suspect I am...
Regards
Dave M
Re: Rear support clarification
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:13 pm
by rbodleyscott
davem wrote:In a recent game my opponent claimed rear support in this manner.
He had 2 BG's of 8 Pk in 4 ranks. Immediately behind these and split across both Pk BG's he had 1 BG of 4 MF Bw. He claimed each BG of 8 Pk could claim rear support from this single BG of 4 MF. My reading of P135 indicates that rear support can only be claimed when _each_ BG is supported by at least 1/2 it's own numbers. (Bullet 1)
Who's right? I suspect I am...
He is, as long as the BG of 4 was in column behind the join between the 2 BGs of pike.
Re: Rear support clarification
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:18 pm
by davem
rbodleyscott wrote:davem wrote:In a recent game my opponent claimed rear support in this manner.
He had 2 BG's of 8 Pk in 4 ranks. Immediately behind these and split across both Pk BG's he had 1 BG of 4 MF Bw. He claimed each BG of 8 Pk could claim rear support from this single BG of 4 MF. My reading of P135 indicates that rear support can only be claimed when _each_ BG is supported by at least 1/2 it's own numbers. (Bullet 1)
Who's right? I suspect I am...
He is, as long as the BG of 4 was in column behind the join between the 2 BGs of pike.
No, it was 2 bases per Pk BG in corner to corner contact, in 2 ranks. I'll assume then he was wrong from your comment?
Re: Rear support clarification
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:48 pm
by rbodleyscott
davem wrote:rbodleyscott wrote:davem wrote:In a recent game my opponent claimed rear support in this manner.
He had 2 BG's of 8 Pk in 4 ranks. Immediately behind these and split across both Pk BG's he had 1 BG of 4 MF Bw. He claimed each BG of 8 Pk could claim rear support from this single BG of 4 MF. My reading of P135 indicates that rear support can only be claimed when _each_ BG is supported by at least 1/2 it's own numbers. (Bullet 1)
Who's right? I suspect I am...
He is, as long as the BG of 4 was in column behind the join between the 2 BGs of pike.
No, it was 2 bases per Pk BG in corner to corner contact, in 2 ranks. I'll assume then he was wrong from your comment?
The supporting bases have to be at least partly directly behind the supported BG.
Thus it appears that he could not count rear support if the situation was as you describe. However, one BG of 4 bases can support 2 BGs of 8 if it is placed in column behind the join between them, as then all 4 bases will be partly behind both supported BGs.
rear support
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:54 pm
by WhiteKnight
I think that whether neither,both or either of his pike BGs had rear support depends on the formation and position of the supporting BG.
pppppppp pppppppp .....and these are 4 deep pike, neither counts rear support. However, if these were originally two base-depth four-base BGs, then
the bow would be in rear support!
bbbb bbbb
bbbb bbbb
pppppppp pppppppp .....both pike BGs count rear support, as would BGs of other types originally of up to eight bases.
bbbb
bbbb
bbbb
bbbb
pppppppp pppppppp .....only the rh pike BG receives rear support. If the lh BG were originally of four or fewer bases, it would receive it, too.
bbbb bbbb
bbbb bbbb
Hope this helps,
Martin
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:56 pm
by WhiteKnight
ooohhh....please ignore last post....diagrams went hopelessly wrong, nothing like what i had set up when i sent it!
Will have to watch that!
Martin
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:46 pm
by rbodleyscott
WhiteKnight wrote:ooohhh....please ignore last post....diagrams went hopelessly wrong, nothing like what i had set up when i sent it!
Will have to watch that!
You need to use
e.g.
Code: Select all
pppppppp pppppppp
pppppppp pppppppp
pppppppp pppppppp
pppppppp pppppppp
bbbb
bbbb
bbbb
bbbb
In this case both Pike blocks have rear support. (Assuming that "pppp" represents one base.)
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:31 pm
by WhiteKnight
Code: Select all
pppppppp pppppppp
[code] bbbb bbbb
[code] bbbb bbbb
In this case only the rh pike BG of 8 bases would count rear support.
Hope this diplays as I intended this time. Previous posts clarified other possibilities!
Martin
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:33 pm
by WhiteKnight
no it didnt, tho it did in the preview! right..will desist from this 'til I've sussed it properly!
Sorry all!
Martin
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:43 am
by rayfredjohn
So Dave
The unit of 4 MF xbow can offer rear support to two pike blocks. However they must be in column and be positioned equally behind both blocks. My fault on the positioning.
Ray
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:28 pm
by davem
rayfredjohn wrote:So Dave
The unit of 4 MF xbow can offer rear support to two pike blocks. However they must be in column and be positioned equally behind both blocks. My fault on the positioning.
Ray
Yep, I think we both know the definition now.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:38 am
by hammy
The supporting base only needs to be PARTLY behind the supported BG, just 1mm of base will do and as this happened in my game against Bruce when 1mm of a base at the back of a column made the difference between us breaking his army and not it was a bit of a pain
It was made even worse by the fact that we lost 6-8 more attrition points before we got the 1 we needed to take them down
